Am I being two-timed?

[Axtman]

I am currently in a jazz trio (singer, guitar, bass). We have been looking for a piano player to round out our mix. A while back we auditioned a piano player who was excellent. We liked "Bob" and invited him to join us. Well Bob decided not to join us which came as no surprise since he was out of our league in terms of talent. Well we come to find out that he and the singer have been doing gigs together around town. Last Saturday there was a music festival where the trio played a few songs, then later in the evening the singer and Bob did a few songs.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with musicians being in more than one band. Heck I play in my church band. But I do have a problem with being rejected. Bob obviously did not think the guitar player and me were talented enough. It's like going to an event where your ex-wife shows up with her new husband.

What are your thoughts?

 

[pcake]

it's not obvious that bob didn't think you or the guitar player were talented enough. he might not have liked the gigs, the particular song choices or something else. he may have felt he wanted more control over the group he joined. heck, he may not have liked the days you practice. or - for all you know - the singer had an ad on CL for musicians or contacted him wanting to do something different.

 

[themarshall]

Welcome to the world of rhythm section or second class band mate. I'm guessing the keys and vocals figure more gigs, less members, more $ - and possibly more recognition. Your options include becoming so badass as a bassist you can carry 1/2 of a duo, developing vocal skills, learning a lead or stand alone accompaniment instrument or acceptance of your status as a bass player in the current scheme of things. Or as a dear drummer friend likes to say: "take it up an octave and lay out".

 

[RustyAxe]

What are your thoughts?

There will always be others who are more advanced musically than you are (Bob's "out of your league" as you say). So go find another piano player. And don't be surprised if down the road you're looking for another singer, too. It's just the way it works. Talent seeks out talent.

 

[40Hz]

Maybe the pieces he was performing were arranged for a piano and vocals duo? That's a nice combination for a jazz number. And very easy to put together on short notice if the vocalist is really good and the keyboard player is competent.

However, if the real issue for you is he doesn't think you're good enough to perform with him, you have two options : (a) get better -or- (b) decide you don't care what this piano player thinks about you and get on with your life.

 

[Axtman]

I have thought about all the reasons why the piano player chose to just go with the singer. Talent is really the only reason. We have not played a paying gig yet just a bunch of free ones. They (Bob and the singer) do the same songs the trio does (because those are the only songs the singer knows). When I heard the duo play the other night I keep thinking how the bass was missing.

Yes I am trying to get better and trying to put it out of my mind. Like I said about the ex-wife thing, it just feels a little weird. I wonder how the singer would feel if I formed another jazz trio with a better looking and more talented singer then asked if we could play the next music festival. My guess, knowing singers and females, is that would not go over well at all.

 

[Axtman]

I remember years ago being in a classic rock band where the band leader had another classic rock band. I was a little annoyed then that he was in two competing bands. I was concerned about who he would promote more ("mom loves you best"). I mentioned this to him and his attitude was that he loved being in two bands.

Sure enough he could not make a scheduled gig because he had another gig with his other band. That was the beginning of the end for me in his band.

 

[40Hz]

I have thought about all the reasons why the piano player chose to just go with the singer. Talent is really the only reason. We have not played a paying gig yet just a bunch of free ones. They (Bob and the singer) do the same songs the trio does (because those are the only songs the singer knows). When I heard the duo play the other night I keep thinking how the bass was missing.

Yes I am trying to get better and trying to put it out of my mind. Like I said about the ex-wife thing, it just feels a little weird. I wonder how the singer would feel if I formed another jazz trio with a better looking and more talented singer then asked if we could play the next music festival. My guess, knowing singers and females, is that would not go over well at all.

I think you need to let it go and roll with however it goes. Don't get ahead of the situation. Just keep on 'mushing on' and honing your craft. If you're in this for all the right reasons, this is just another stage in your development as a musician to get yourself through - and beyond. That's why they call it "paying your dues."

Keep faith with yourself. And above all keep on playing. Do that and it'll all work out for the best no matter where it lands.

Onward!

 

[Axtman]

Thanks for the pep talk 40HZ! I'm a little down today.

 

[JimmyThunder]

I have no problem at all with folks in my band being in other bands
If someone auditions for my band, declines, and then our singer starts a working relationship with them and doesn't tell you, well, in my opinion that's a very tasteless move and I'd be vocal about that....but wouldn't call to fire them over it
But the singer is doing all the same songs as our band? THAT's over the line.

 

[Bodeanly]

If someone auditions for my band, declines, and then our singer starts a working relationship with them and doesn't tell you, well, in my opinion that's a very tasteless move and I'd be vocal about that.

I LOVE calling people out on their BS. I would probably find one of their flyers and turn it into a t-shirt to wear at the next rehearsal. Then I'd laugh and laugh and practice my bass until my fingers were trees and, years later, hold auditions to form the greatest band in the universe, then turn both of them down. In every interview, when talking about where I started and so on, I would intentionally refer to them as "some dudes," if I referred to them at all.

 

[peledog]

Sounds very sneaky and slimy.

 

[elgecko]

It's business. You can't take it personally. Less extraneous musicians equals more money in their pockets. If Bob could sing, he wouldn't even need the vocalist.

 

[Axtman]

Back to the cover band thing. What the band should have done is when we had a gig with the band I was in ("Band A") then we should have all worn t-shirts with "Band B" logo. And referred to ourselves as the other band members. If Band B's bass player was Steve then have everyone refer to me as "Steve". And say things into the mike like, "Thanks for coming out to hear Band B tonight! We will be playing at the Lucky Tavern tomorrow night at 7. Come hear us again.

We would then really try to nail the songs and be the best musicians we can. Someone would then go see or hire Band B and probably say, "Wait a minute! I saw Band B last night and they rocked. These guys aren't even that band and they suck!"

 

[bolophonic]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to start looking for a new vocalist right now.

 

[10cc]

Bob's got a plan. Most Bobs do. I usually stick to Roberts.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The piano player needed a singer for his thing and didn't need a drummer or bass. It's not a rejection, but he made a connection and used her when he needed a vocalist. Always. Always. Network.

 

[jtharp]

Question: does your singer and bob's collaboration have any negative effect on your group? Or does it just bother you because he wanted to collaborate with the singer and not with you?

Your jazz trio is not an exclusive relationship...it sounds like you are jealous. As others have said, there are many reasons that he may have wanted to collaborate with the singer. It's not personal, its just business. It likely has nothing to do with your playing, but just the circumstances of what he was looking for at the time.

 

[Kevan Campbell]

This just sounds like networking to me. It's too bad that the four of you didn't get on together but thems the breaks sometimes. It doesn't sound like there was anything malicious about Bob and the singer working together; if a venue only has enough to pay a duo should they turn down the gig because all four of you might not be paid. It's just business.

 

[DirtDog]

We had a frontman and keys do that once for a big gig (for them) and left us out in the cold for some dates we already had on the books so they could rehearse, etc. Needless to say, those two guys are not in the band anymore. They had thier one big gig together and nothing since.

Network all you want, but don't sell out.