Am I being two-timed?

[Drucifer]

If you take everything personally, you won't be having very much fun. One of my past band mates said it's like a softball team, you get the best players you can get, nothing personal and no hard feelings. I have been brought in because I'm better than the other bass player, and I have been let go because they found another better bass player. I'm okay with that, I'm not as good as Jaco was but I'm pretty good, and I get a lot of gigs because I show up to practice on time, am dependable, easy to get along with, and learn the stuff I'm supposed to learn before practice and gigs. In short, professionalism will get you a lot of gigs that talent alone will not.

 

[Nev375]

If you let negative feelings affect you when they are triggered by the actions of other people, you are letting those people control you.

Stuff those negative feelings away somewhere and forget about them. Look for positive angles in every situation. Sometimes you can find something positive and sometimes you can't. Whatever you do, DON'T let other people control your emotions. Be your own hero and capitalize on the situation. If nothing else, use those guys as inspiration. They are doing what you wanna do, so you can't blame them. Feel glad for them! If you really feel it's your talent that's holding you back then practice.

Tell them you saw the gig and thought they were amazing. Tell them you really want to be up there with them and you are working hard on your chops to get better. And do exactly that.

If you can express that kind of positivity people will want to be around you. Don't believe me?

Think about if the situation were reversed and you had two band members that weren't invited to the gig for whatever reason. One of them says the above to you and the other acts however you are acting now. Who would you be most enthused about practicing with?

 

[MrLenny1]

He's getting duo gigs which is much easier to get than
a quartet. Rythm section players do not work much lately.
C'est la Vie !

 

[the yeti]

6 bills split 4 ways vs split 2 ways.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

6 bills split 4 ways vs split 2 ways.

I was waiting for someone to point this out. It isn't necessarily a problem with talent; it's economics.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Network all you want, but don't sell out.

Jeez, that's all I ever try to do is sell out! In the immortal words of George Frayne: "The only thing worse than selling out is selling out and not getting bought."

 

[mellowinman]

I have thought about all the reasons why the piano player chose to just go with the singer. Talent is really the only reason. We have not played a paying gig yet just a bunch of free ones. They (Bob and the singer) do the same songs the trio does (because those are the only songs the singer knows). When I heard the duo play the other night I keep thinking how the bass was missing.

Yes I am trying to get better and trying to put it out of my mind. Like I said about the ex-wife thing, it just feels a little weird. I wonder how the singer would feel if I formed another jazz trio with a better looking and more talented singer then asked if we could play the next music festival. My guess, knowing singers and females, is that would not go over well at all.

Any time you can get a better looking and more talented singer, DO IT.

 

[ThePresident777]

I am currently in a jazz trio (singer, guitar, bass). We have been looking for a piano player to round out our mix. A while back we auditioned a piano player who was excellent. We liked "Bob" and invited him to join us. Well Bob decided not to join us which came as no surprise since he was out of our league in terms of talent. Well we come to find out that he and the singer have been doing gigs together around town. Last Saturday there was a music festival where the trio played a few songs, then later in the evening the singer and Bob did a few songs.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with musicians being in more than one band. Heck I play in my church band. But I do have a problem with being rejected. Bob obviously did not think the guitar player and me were talented enough. It's like going to an event where your ex-wife shows up with her new husband.

What are your thoughts?

Fire the singer!

 

[lermgalieu]

With all due respect, to the people that are saying to swallow your pride and move on, although that is impeccable from an ethical perspective, I think it misses the point. It's one thing to have to run into the singer and Bob from time to time, but the singer is literally in your band. Playing the same songs. Given that, I don't know how I could just forgive and forget. IMO, your options are (a) make your feelings known to the singer in a very honest and straightforward (not emotional) manner; or (b) quit your band. (b) seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Clear the air, if only to get an explanation. Just my opinion.

 

[ashtray]

The piano player has both a left hand and right hand - why does he need a guitarist or bassist?

Hey, it might have nothing to do with your musical talents - maybe he just didn't like you?

Haha - joking around! But seriously, if no harm and no foul, then observe and move on. If your singer gets poached, then that sucks, but you guys aren't exactly under contract to play together either. Bands evolve over time.

 

[the yeti]

Jeez, that's all I ever try to do is sell out! In the immortal words of George Frayne: "The only thing worse than selling out is selling out and not getting bought."

my man!

 

[Axtman]

Thanks for all the responses. I encourage other musicians to find other venues to play. What sucks is the rejection and the fact that Bob then took our singer and not the guitar player and me.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. I wonder how my singer would feel if the guitar player and I started practicing with a new singer doing the same style of music and same tunes. I know that our singer would shut that down pretty darn fast. Knowing her she would probably give us an ultimatum or just quit and stick with her gigs with Bob.

 

[lermgalieu]

Thanks for all the responses. I encourage other musicians to find other venues to play. What sucks is the rejection and the fact that Bob then took our singer and not the guitar player and me.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. I wonder how my singer would feel if the guitar player and I started practicing with a new singer doing the same style of music and same tunes. I know that our singer would shut that down pretty darn fast. Knowing her she would probably give us an ultimatum or just quit and stick with her gigs with Bob.

You're not going to get un-rejected. The goal is to take some action or shift your thinking to allow you to move forward. Honestly, I've felt similar in the past without justification. And the only way I knew was to take it up with the person I thought was rejecting me, ya know? You have a right to your feelings, but just go easy, because there well may be a perfectly good explanation, albeit one you don't like. If she says "it's more money this way," or "it's easier to get gigs," or "it's easier to learn songs," those are all valid reasons, and you have to learn to live with it or move on. Again, totally IMO, YMMV.

 

[Gougedeye]

This presents a perfect opportunity for you and the guitar player to go out and find yourselves a singer, Keyboardist and drummer if need be and get to work. The best revenge is living good! Create the band you want and start gigging.

 

[JRA]

Welcome to the world of rhythm section or second class band mate

i'm sorry to disagree: i think pcake got it right: the OP doesn't know 'what the deal is', and in the jazz universe: there are a lot of cats who play with anyone/everyone. why not. i do. and so do a lot of others. jazz is a little different = it's why it's jazz! more likely that the piano player thought he was at his best with the vocalist (a 'duo' if you will = more 'show off' time for both, and maybe he's re-studying "micro ensembles!" ha!). what's wrong with that?

but: bass players will never be, nor have they ever been, second class, as band mates or musicians! IMO

 

[Eilif]

It would have been respectful for the Singer to let you know that he was doing some stuff with the keyboardist. I might even go so far as to say it was the "right" thing, but it isn't strictly necessary.

Tell them you saw the gig and thought they were amazing. Tell them you really want to be up there with them and you are working hard on your chops to get better. And do exactly that.

This isn't a bad idea.

6 bills split 4 ways vs split 2 ways.

This!

It's possible that the keyboardist might have found the rest of the group wanting and just took the singer. Hoewever, my suspicion is that there are at least a few other contributing factors.
1-Keyboardist may not have wanted to commit to a "band".
2-Keyboardist may have just wanted a ready-gig with little/no practice, hence grab a singer and play some tunes he already knows.
3-Money. If he feels he's good enough to carry the day there's no reason to split 4 ways when you can split 2 ways, and there's no reason for your singer to turn down the gig. Though it would have been nice to let you know.

It's not fun for you guys, but for a good keyboardist (especially if he's trying to make some $), it's kind of a no-brainer to just grab a singer and do some tunes rather than jumping whole hog into a band.

A somewhat similar story, after spending a decade with a 9 piece band, my trumpet-playing-sometimes-singing uncle bowed out. He's now putting together a quartet with the intent of only playing corporate gigs and well-paying parties (weddings, etc). In a 4 piece there's much more $ for each member, you have shorter-and-fewer practices and it's far easier to coordinate schedules.

As it turns out he still fills in for the original group now and then, but there's almost never a rehearsal required, he gets hired-gun pay rate, and there's even the good vibes you get from the rest of the group by being the old friend who helps the band out in a pinch.

 

[HolmeBass]

Thanks for all the responses. I encourage other musicians to find other venues to play. What sucks is the rejection and the fact that Bob then took our singer and not the guitar player and me.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. I wonder how my singer would feel if the guitar player and I started practicing with a new singer doing the same style of music and same tunes. I know that our singer would shut that down pretty darn fast. Knowing her she would probably give us an ultimatum or just quit and stick with her gigs with Bob.

That's not very accepting of her, is it? Do you want to be that way?

Every band I play with has members of other bands. So every time I book a gig, I immediately get competition from these other bands that my bandmates have. I just have to accept it. And it does work both ways: I have booked a different band into a venue that I got my foot into by having a band mate book our band in there. It's just the way it goes. One band I play with the keyboardist and guitarist - also the 2 vocalists in this band - are a band themselves, on acoustic guitar and cello. We play many of the same songs (the lead singer's originals and covers he knows). They often book themselves into gigs I find for the quartet. It can be frustrating. I think perhaps I am lucky in that we are all good friends and they do seem to prefer the bigger rock show gigs, even with less pay. There is also strength in numbers. Those duo gigs can get a tad lonely.

But my main point is you have to rise above this. You will not shame the singer into not playing with the keyboardist, you will only make her feel better about doing so the more crap you give her. If she couldn't handle you working with another vocalist, she's not really that professional and you can do without her. Keep playing, keep working, keep booking. Always move forward, like some kind of music shark.

 

[mellowinman]

It's business. You can't take it personally. Less extraneous musicians equals more money in their pockets. If Bob could sing, he wouldn't even need the vocalist.

If Bob was married to your Aunt, then it's all good and Bob's Your Uncle.

 

[okcrum]

Thanks for all the responses. I encourage other musicians to find other venues to play. What sucks is the rejection and the fact that Bob then took our singer and not the guitar player and me.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. I wonder how my singer would feel if the guitar player and I started practicing with a new singer doing the same style of music and same tunes. I know that our singer would shut that down pretty darn fast. Knowing her she would probably give us an ultimatum or just quit and stick with her gigs with Bob.

If these bands are covering standards, there's no arguing about the material. You're free to get another singer. I play in multiple bands that cover some of the same standards. Are both bands playing the same venues? If not, there's not even a slim potential for conflict.

I wouldn't do anything in your situation until I could make an impartial music business decision. Music is basically an at-will business. That throws people sometimes.

 

[lermgalieu]

It would have been respectful for the keyboardist to let you know that he was doing some stuff with the keyboardist. I might even go so far as to say it was the "right" thing, but it isn't strictly necessary.


This isn't a bad idea.


This!

It's possible that he might have found your group wanting. Hoewever, my suspicion is that there are at least a few other contributing factors.
1-Keyboardist may not have wanted to commit to a "band".
2-Keyboardist may have just wanted a ready-gig with little/no practice, hence grab a singer and play some tunes he already knows.
3-Money. If he feels he's good enough to carry the day there's no reason to split 4 ways when you can split 2 ways, and there's no reason for your singer to turn down the gig. Though it would have been nice to let you know.

It's not fun for you guys, but for a good keyboardist (especially if he's trying to make some $), it's kind of a no-brainer to just grab a singer and do some tunes rather than jumping whole hog into a band.

A somewhat similar story, after spending a decade with a 9 piece band, my trumpet-playing-sometimes-singing uncle bowed out. He's now putting together a quartet with the intent of only playing corporate gigs and well-paying parties (weddings, etc). In a 4 piece there's much more $ for each member, you have shorter-and-fewer practices and it's far easier to coordinate schedules.

As it turns out he still fills in for the original group now and then, but there's almost never a rehearsal required, he gets hired-gun pay rate, and there's even the good vibes you get from the rest of the group by being the old friend who helps the band out in a pinch.

Not that you're talking to me, haha, but I agree with ALL of this, but the issue does not lie with Bob, IMO. I think OP has a gripe with singer. My personal opinion is that she should have given OP a head's up, just based on the presented facts, not some abstract jazzer's code. It is the right thing to do. Did she HAVE to? No. Was there any contract? No. As always, YMMV, IMO, etc.