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Am I being two-timed?

#41
Deal with it instead of letting it deal with you. Just ask singer girl if she's looking to make a move.

While i would prefer someone be up front if they are making decision(s) that are going to impact my life, i'm not gonna get wrapped around the axle about it and force some kind of showdown. Once armed with the knowledge that singer girl is doing other projects, a casual discussion couched in professional interest will cue you as to the future of y'alls involvement together in music.

Combos come and combos go and it's for all manner of reasons. Roll with the punches and keep chasing your dream.
 
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#42
lermgalieu said:
Not that you're talking to me, haha, but I agree with ALL of this, but the issue does not lie with Bob, IMO. I think OP has a gripe with singer. My personal opinion is that she should have given OP a head's up, just based on the presented facts, not some abstract jazzer's code. It is the right thing to do. Did she HAVE to? No. Was there any contract? No. As always, YMMV, IMO, etc.
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oops, I mis-wrote that. I'll fix it.

I agree with you for sure. I try to go out of my way to be above board and above reproach, but I also try not to take it too hard when others slip in the grey areas. The singer should have been strait up, but technically it's nobody's business but his what gigs he takes. I noticed also that the OP's band doesn't appear to have lost any gigs from this yet. Sounds like they were both on the same bill.
 
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#43
fhm555 said:
Deal with it instead of letting it deal with you. Just ask singer girl if she's looking to make a move.

While i would prefer someone be up front if they are making decision(s) that are going to impact my life, i'm not gonna get wrapped around the axle about it and force some kind of showdown. Once armed with the knowledge that singer girl is doing other projects, a casual discussion couched in professional interest will cue you as to the future of y'alls involvement together in music.

Combos come and combos go and it's for all manner of reasons. Roll with the punches and keep chasing your dream.
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Yep - this is what I was trying to get at with my first post. Talk to her about it, but not in a loaded, emotional way. Tell her the duo sounded great, but you just want to get a better idea of her intentions for the duo and whether she will continue to be available as needed for your project. I can't think of a reason you wouldn't want to talk to her about it. But yes, leave your emotions at the door.
 
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#44
Eilif said:
oops, I mis-wrote that. I'll fix it.

I agree with you for sure. I try to go out of my way to be above board and above reproach, but I also try not to take it too hard when others slip in the grey areas. The singer should have been strait up, but technically it's nobody's business but his what gigs he takes. I noticed also that the OP's band doesn't appear to have lost any gigs from this yet. Sounds like they were both on the same bill.
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Right - that's why I suggest a conversation. OP is clearly not ok with it, so he needs to find a way to get past it. Sometimes a simple conversation can make you realize it's NBD more than a bunch of anonymous bassists on the internet...
 
#47
It either clicks or it doesn't, which does not necessarily mean so-and-so is much more talented than such-and-such. The whole point of jazz is group improvisation, which extends to group population. It is typical for any jazz musician or singer to be in multiple overlapping groups, or perform in put-together-on-the-spot ensembles.

Now if you'd find out that they have been purposely been scooping up the exact gigs that you had done networking for on behalf of the trio, than maybe you should have a conversation with the singer.
 
#48
Axtman said:
...Let's put the shoe on the other foot. I wonder how my singer would feel if the guitar player and I started practicing with a new singer doing the same style of music and same tunes. I know that our singer would shut that down pretty darn fast. Knowing her she would probably give us an ultimatum or just quit and stick with her gigs with Bob.
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Then she'd be stuck playing with the better musician, making more money. That'll show her!

:bored:

Seriously dude, you need to get over it. It's counterproductive. Jazz circles are fairly small and deeply incestuous. If what you say about Bob is accurate, he's probably entrenched in the local circle(s). You really don't want to get a reputation for being a jealous drama queen.
 
#51
lermgalieu said:
With all due respect, to the people that are saying to swallow your pride and move on, although that is impeccable from an ethical perspective, I think it misses the point. It's one thing to have to run into the singer and Bob from time to time, but the singer is literally in your band. Playing the same songs. Given that, I don't know how I could just forgive and forget. IMO, your options are (a) make your feelings known to the singer in a very honest and straightforward (not emotional) manner; or (b) quit your band. (b) seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Clear the air, if only to get an explanation. Just my opinion.
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What else is there realistically besides swallowing pride and moving on? Honestly, anything else, as professionals, is embarrassing and unbecoming. It's business, not a marriage. In the circles I play in, it's practically the same band with a different singer every time. I know that's an exaggeration, but I can't count the number of bands made of different versions of the same lineup. Often the same songs. We don't take it personally, we don't ask dramatic questions, we move on the the next paying lineup.
 
#52
Axtman said:
I am currently in a jazz trio (singer, guitar, bass). We have been looking for a piano player to round out our mix. A while back we auditioned a piano player who was excellent. We liked "Bob" and invited him to join us. Well Bob decided not to join us which came as no surprise since he was out of our league in terms of talent. Well we come to find out that he and the singer have been doing gigs together around town. Last Saturday there was a music festival where the trio played a few songs, then later in the evening the singer and Bob did a few songs.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with musicians being in more than one band. Heck I play in my church band. But I do have a problem with being rejected. Bob obviously did not think the guitar player and me were talented enough. It's like going to an event where your ex-wife shows up with her new husband.

What are your thoughts?
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You can't make people want to play in a band with you. People tend to play with whom they want to play with. My opinion is that being "pro" in the best sense of the word means accepting situations like this graciously. Otherwise, you may encounter some unintended negative side effects from even mentioning it.

For example, the last band I played in. The drummer had another project. World music. He's releasing his last CD with that group after a 40 year run. It's kind of a big deal. He invites the other guitarist to play the release party show. He didn't play on the CD, but covered some extra parts that the MD felt needed to be there. The whole band shows up to support the drummer.

A few months later the drummer starts apologizing to me that he didn't invite me to also participate. I told him no apology was necessary. I meant it. It's always OK to invite/hire the musicians you think best suit your needs at any given time. Not only was I not offended by that, I would never want to strain an otherwise productive musical relationship with jealousy crap. It just has no place IMO. No self-respecting player should ever want gigs that are essentially mercy f**ks. Either we earn our way into situations or we don't.
 
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#53
QweziRider said:
What else is there realistically besides swallowing pride and moving on? Honestly, anything else, as professionals, is embarrassing and unbecoming. It's business, not a marriage. In the circles I play in, it's practically the same band with a different singer every time. I know that's an exaggeration, but I can't count the number of bands made of different versions of the same lineup. Often the same songs. We don't take it personally, we don't ask dramatic questions, we move on the the next paying lineup.
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I am not saying to not move on. In fact that's exactly what I AM saying to do! My point is not whether OP's feelings are somehow legitimate. My point is that he HAS them regardless! He is in a group with the singer, so that makes it difficult for him to just swallow it and move on. So, as I suggested in a different post, just have a casual conversation with her about her intentions, without blame or assumptions. It will probably make him feel better. I'll leave all the judgments about how he should feel to everyone else.
 
#55
QweziRider said:
Fair enough. I guess my follow-up point would be that music business goes much easier for me to have no feelings about work lineup changes.
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Gotcha - FWIW I generally feel as you do. It's much easier to never develop hard feelings than get rid of them. I think the OP is just learning this lesson, so I am thinking back in order to empathize. My best band rejection was actually way back in high school. I showed up for practice at my friend/guitarist's house and he said "you're fired. do you need some help carrying your stuff home?" LOL! He still is one of my best friends. And, though we live in different cities now, I still play music with the drummer, who, when he found out I was "fired" quit on the spot and started another band with me. He was also my best man (the drummer).
 
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#57
I really think this was a $$ thing and nothing to do with talent. ... Don't let music get personal or you'll quit it. ... Maybe it's time to plan a combo that isn't dependant on having a piano or a vocalist. ... Could you imagine your surprise if it was drummers you were auditioning and later you saw the singer with him doing a duo? ... I mean once you stopped laughing.
 
#58
Axtman said:
I am currently in a jazz trio (singer, guitar, bass). We have been looking for a piano player to round out our mix. A while back we auditioned a piano player who was excellent. We liked "Bob" and invited him to join us. Well Bob decided not to join us which came as no surprise since he was out of our league in terms of talent. Well we come to find out that he and the singer have been doing gigs together around town. Last Saturday there was a music festival where the trio played a few songs, then later in the evening the singer and Bob did a few songs.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with musicians being in more than one band. Heck I play in my church band. But I do have a problem with being rejected. Bob obviously did not think the guitar player and me were talented enough. It's like going to an event where your ex-wife shows up with her new husband.

What are your thoughts?
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A keys player doesn't need a guitar and bass to do gigs. Much better to split the pay two ways instead of four. It is as simple as that.
 
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#59
RichSnyder said:
The piano player needed a singer for his thing and didn't need a drummer or bass. It's not a rejection, but he made a connection and used her when he needed a vocalist. Always. Always. Network.
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This is exactly how it went down. I’ve done it as well. Auditioned for bands I had no intention of joining, just to scope out a singer or guitarist.

Guarantee the duo was Bob’s idea. You got snaked man.
 
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