Am I being two-timed?

[Rocker949]

This presents a perfect opportunity for you and the guitar player to go out and find yourselves a singer, Keyboardist and drummer if need be and get to work. The best revenge is living good! Create the band you want and start gigging.

This is an excellent post which I totally agree with.

 

[Carl Hillman]

I am currently in a jazz trio (singer, guitar, bass). We have been looking for a piano player to round out our mix. A while back we auditioned a piano player who was excellent. We liked "Bob" and invited him to join us. Well Bob decided not to join us which came as no surprise since he was out of our league in terms of talent. Well we come to find out that he and the singer have been doing gigs together around town. Last Saturday there was a music festival where the trio played a few songs, then later in the evening the singer and Bob did a few songs.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with musicians being in more than one band. Heck I play in my church band. But I do have a problem with being rejected. Bob obviously did not think the guitar player and me were talented enough. It's like going to an event where your ex-wife shows up with her new husband.

What are your thoughts?

Let it go.

 

[pcake]

I have thought about all the reasons why the piano player chose to just go with the singer. Talent is really the only reason. We have not played a paying gig yet just a bunch of free ones. They (Bob and the singer) do the same songs the trio does (because those are the only songs the singer knows). When I heard the duo play the other night I keep thinking how the bass was missing.

Yes I am trying to get better and trying to put it out of my mind. Like I said about the ex-wife thing, it just feels a little weird. I wonder how the singer would feel if I formed another jazz trio with a better looking and more talented singer then asked if we could play the next music festival. My guess, knowing singers and females, is that would not go over well at all.

maybe the reason he didn't join the band is BECAUSE you have no gigs. or maybe he just didn't feel the chemistry with one of you. or, as several have mentioned, maybe opportunities came up for duos.

unless he tells you why he didn't join, the truth is you don't know.

So the question becomes where does "loyalty" come into play? Is there such a thing anymore? Do I owe the trio any loyalty?

I saw a TED talk once where a CEO described her company as a "team" not a "family". I think what she meant was if someone better comes along, you're out. Unfortunately I don't think she realized that the sword cuts both ways. People working for those companies have no loyalty to the company and will jump ship at any better position that comes along. Anyhow that is another discussion for another thread.

for a few years i played with three bands. they all knew it - in fact, i tried to get at least two rehearsals back to back at the studio whenever possible, so they all met and sometimes hung to watch part of one of the other bands' rehearsals. the bands were radically different kinds of music, and my contributions were also different. and as far as loyalty? if someone insulted one of my band mates, i'd be right up there standing up for them. if one of my bandmates needed a ride, a loan or a shoulder to cry on, there i was. when one of the bands had the drummer and guitar player move back to another country when they both graduated MI, i stuck and even helped the BL find another guitar player, who happened not only to be the guitar player from one of the other bands but a few years later i married him.

i have one husband but there's no reason not to be in several bands or have multiple friends. it's not a one-only relationship. even bands like the rolling stones have side or solo projects.

 

[QweziRider]

unless she's your wife, then you are free to throw a tantrum and deep six "Bob"...

Oh hell no. Not if she's bringing in more than I can!

 

[QweziRider]

in the working music world, people work with people, who work with other people. You should too.

Yup. It's how we all get work. And how work becomes steady. Just look at me. I'm an overnight success thanks to networking. And it only took 35 years!

 

[brianrost]

I do have a problem with being rejected. Bob obviously did not think the guitar player and me were talented enough.

Well, that's probably true. He liked the singer, though.

So what is the problem here? I play with plenty of guys who are more talented than I am and they also play with people who are at their level. I don't get bent out of shape about it.

 

[MojoPenguin]

Careful of the Bobs...

 

[Passinwind]

I have thought about all the reasons why the piano player chose to just go with the singer. Talent is really the only reason. We have not played a paying gig yet just a bunch of free ones.

Have you considered that maybe Bob likes to get paid and feels that splitting the dough two ways beats four?

 

[Stumbo]

This just sounds like networking to me. It's too bad that the four of you didn't get on together but thems the breaks sometimes. It doesn't sound like there was anything malicious about Bob and the singer working together; if a venue only has enough to pay a duo should they turn down the gig because all four of you might not be paid. It's just business.

If the piano/vocalist have paying gigs seems to me that's why they got together. Maybe the piano player has contacts for paying duo gigs. Even if that's true, the singer should have been up front about letting you know what's happening.

 

[lfmn16]

Welcome to the music BUSINESS. The singer saw an opportunity to make money and play. I don't see a problem other than the singer not being man enough to tell you to your face that he was playing with the keyboard player.

 

[Joe Nerve]

What are your thoughts?

It happens, it stings, and we have to get used to it. Often times, IME, it has nothing to do with talent or lack of it. Piano player guy might very well just like your singer, or need a singer, and most musicians play with lots of people. Just have to roll with it, and do the same.

 

[JRA]

Maybe Bob is boning her.

very funny! i almost hate pointing that out in this otherwise serious discussion. i'm not a a conspiracy theory guy, but i enjoy observing conspiracy theorists. mudulusman: i think you're in a gray area, here!

 

[CrashClint]

I think you need to go Christopher Walken on the two.

 

[SteveHeissner]

What are your thoughts?

Ask yourself, "what would De Niro do?"

If an opportunity comes along for you and the guitar player maybe you should just take it and not tell the singer.

 

[bassbully]

Maybe but what can you really do about it?

 

[Plutonium244]

A piano / vocalist duo is a configuration that can work for many, many situations, is easy to pull together and orchestrate.

My guess is, Bob figured he can get by with just 2 performers, and snare gigs that a 4 piece might not get the call for (I see duos all the time in the entry area for receptions, in hotel lounges with a grand piano, etc.).

Talented professionals are keenly aware of the utility of arrangements, and if only 2 parts are called for in whatever they are trying to accomplish, then that's what they will do. It's not about you, for good or bad. It's about what Bob feels suits the gigs he wants to do, is my take.

I would not take it as an offense or insult. Fewer members to pay, and the ability to do gigs a 4-piece jazz ensemble might not be ideal for, and greater ease of scheduling w/ 2 rather than 4 moving parts is reason enough, so don't take it personally. Moreover, being touchy about your personal feelings of being rejected or not up to par don't help present a picture of professionalism. At the basic level, musicians are like any other trade, sometimes you will get a call and sometimes you won't, there might be a lot of reasons for both that are not a real reflection on you. Just like a plumber. Do your job, don't be a prima donna (not that you are) and don't let your ego get dragged into it. The rest takes care of itself.

Finally, make yourself indispensable, if it really bothers you; ask yourself what you can do to make it impossible for people to pass you over.

 

[tpaul]

OK, I haven't read all the responses on this thread, so please excuse me if this is repetitious.

In my view the key element missing here was communication. It might or might not have been OK for the singer and piano player to start a duo; it might or might not have been OK for them to do the same songs as the full band was doing. By not communicating their intentions to you and the drummer, they missed their opportunity to work this out in a way that would be acceptable to all, and virtually guaranteed that bad feelings would ensue.

So, yeah, start looking for a new singer or work up some instrumental numbers, because that's where this is heading. They didn't respect you enough to communicate before, they're not going to start now.

 

[Plutonium244]

Oh, and one more thing. NEVER make band stuff analogous to love relationships-- 2-timed, spurned me for another, etc. I see a lot of that. We've all been there, having personal "does she like me?" kind of feelings about it all.. now move on through to a different way of looking at it. The are in no way even remotely the same. It's just business for working musicians. If an electrician doesn't need an assistant on a job, he isn't going to pay one to be there, and it's no reflection on the assistant.

 

[DavC]

as you say , You have thought about what he might be thinking ... as in , . assuming ...

really wanna know ... go ask him .. ??!! why should we also try to speculate .?

i could do that , since my main instrument is piano ( then bass,gtr,vocals, ... ) still doesn't give you an answer . !

 

[Plutonium244]

as you say , You have thought about what he might be thinking ... as in , . assuming ...

really wanna know ... go ask him .. ??!! why should we also try to speculate .?

i could do that , since my main instrument is piano ( then bass,gtr,vocals, ... ) still doesn't give you an answer . !

I find your unwillingness to speculate disturbing.