If you are broke, do something about it. End of.
I'm certainly not going to shed a tear when playing a free gig that some poor starving "pro" is out there.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Am I diva for not wanting to play for free?
- Thread starter BillyIVbass
- Start date
If you are broke, do something about it. End of.
I'm certainly not going to shed a tear when playing a free gig that some poor starving "pro" is out there.
Although I might put it a little more diplomatically, I essentially agree with you. We all have to make our own way; we all play gigs for our own reasons, and monetary ones may or may not be a factor. Under some circumstances it may even be worth it to me to play for free while others are making money - when it's their livelihood and not mine, for example.
I confess to getting a little "sensitive" sometimes when others try to tell me what I should or should not be doing because I am "ruining it for everyone" by following my chosen course. Sorry about that.
You can most certainly be signed to a major label and broke and not be able to do a damn thing about it. I'm guessing that was his point. Many of those contracts can keep you from performing, period. Maybe people don't know that.
On the shedding a tear thing, I'd say it goes both ways...nobody's going to shed one for you if you keep playing for free. It works both ways.
It can help drive the overall price down... which can affect anyone who plays for pay, even the free gig guys who eventually do a paying gig. I doubt anyone expects you to care. It goes with the territory.
+1
I teach (20 students), play in two bands, and own a mobile DJ service booking 20 weddings per year (I could easily double that if I didn't teach and play live music).
I run into people all the time who try to tell me my business. "You're charging too much." "You're not charging enough." "You can't do that, you're putting the rest of us out of business!"
Get stuffed. I make a good living wage 100% in the music industry. If I give a discount or do the occasional freebie, it's my call, I think I know what I'm doing, and I'm not taking one crum of food out of anyone's mouth. That assertion is just crap, the scapegoating of misguided whiners.
Your business model may be diifferent, and I promise not to criticize it. I consider myself "succesful" in the entertainment industry, and my business model still involves the occasional free sample and audition. Even some of the most highly succesful businesses in the world use this approach.
I pay my bills and take a nice vacation every year, and I do it with music. Get to where I am, and you shouldn't have to worry so much about every hack band in every podunk town doing a freebie. I sure don't.
I suggest any musician or band worried about what "freebies" are doing to the entertainment world work a lot harder and get a lot better. The more you have to offer a venue or client, the less what everyone else is doing (or charging) should matter.
original bands playing for free do not hurt the paid cover band business one little bit. however, cover bands who play for free do hurt everyone else a little. still, those places usually end up closing down because they have crappy music so i think the hit a paid musician takes is minimal.
Then they need two checks: a reality check and a paycheck to keep body and soul together until they get their act together.
problem i found with doing "free" gigs is there is never just one..word does get around that you do free gigs and the phone never stops..i could have been out every single night doing gigs if i wanted..i stopped doing favours for friends because they tend to take advantage, i will help anyone anytime if i know they are badly in need but i have no problem saying no..it used to bother me until it started to loose me paying gigs because i am promised to someone else..you have a fee big or small if they are that badly stuck they will pay(have made some huge money for a few hours work)you have put in the time and bought all your gear so dont feel guilty about looking for money to help you offset the cost..i dont do that many gigs anymore just every so often,the money is not that important but i still have my time and effort and that usually means i cant do something i want so pay me or find someone else..if you want a plumber or painter how many would you think do free work??
You're not a diva. You're not a jerk. I think you need some new friends, though. They'll continue to try to drag you to "nothing" gigs. I probably would have said something more diplomatic than "not going to take a hit for your gig" but the essence of the idea, if not how it was stated, was correct.
I don't have an absolute minimum dollar amount pay for a gig. I will willingly play for less with people I like, in situations I really like, and when the schedule works, than people I don't like, or in situations I don't like, or when it's really short notice. That is, if I do such a gig at all. Context matters: the who, the how, the if, the what, the when.
I'm in a band. And I'm also sub/freelance/hire, but selectively so.
While I find your tone a bit aggressive, Sure! Its your business, do what you want. But its like any other business. When a Walmart comes too town the smaller guys suffer. The point is as a working musician, its in everyone's best interest that we all get paid a fair wage. And no one should have to play for ABSOLUTELY free. I mean even if its $25 a guy and some food and beer. At least its something.
I see both sides of the coin. And playing for free is a personal choice. And its not like some great band is going around my area and taking all the good gigs for free.
Again the point is missed.................... Even if its just part time for someone. musicians should get paid to play. Of course there are times that musicians are donating their skill. But its in everyone's best interest to try and get paid to play.
You're absolutely right. I'm merely representing the other side of that coin. I'm sure in the minds of many, there are darn good reasons for sticking to your guns and demanding remuneration every time you set foot on a stage. And, from my personal experience and business perspective, there are exceptions to that rule.
Obviously, if I didn't get paid well for what I do, I'd have a hard time surviving. So, yes, charge what you're worth, as often as you can.
The few freebies, auditions, and discounts I give each year aren't cheating anyone out of anything. They are designed to showcase and promote my services (usually resulting in a new PAYING client), and no one should begrudge anyone the opportunity to promote themselves, yes, sometimes at no charge.
Any entertainer or musician who puts it out there for free to the fequency and extent that it actually cheats other entertainers out of paid opportunites would have to be an anomoly, an incredible rarity. That entertainer would have to be extremely talented to get booked and play with that frequency, crazy to never want paid, and the competition would have to really suck.
+1.
To others... I really don't agree with the sentiment that musicians should get paid a fair wage. If the market isn't paying then that's just a fact of life. Either go where it does pay to play or play for the sake of the music and your own enjoyment. But don't assume that you deserve to get paid no matter how talented you may be. The fact is not everyone can make a living at what they enjoy doing... boohoo, life's not fair. Geez, if I could put on a friggin awesome puppet show would I be justified in demanding to get paid for it... or do I have a right to complain if I don't?
I often used to get asked to play for free and would always agree to it providing that they pick me up from home, provide a decent amplifier or lug mine in and out, and deliver me and any gear safely home afterwards. Oh and a couple of beers for actually playing would go down nicely. Funnily enough I never had any takers.
My band do a few charity events, one or two a year, but it has to be something we support.
I personally don't need the money now but I will not go out and line someone else's pocket at my expense even if I do enjoy the playing. We can rehearse for free and enjoy that.
If there is only going to be handful of people there then I don't blame you for pulling out. You are not going to get useful publicity or contacts.
I would email him back and agree to do 'play' for free but you say need transport and someone to lug your gear. Only fair I think.
My band do a few charity events, one or two a year, but it has to be something we support.
I personally don't need the money now but I will not go out and line someone else's pocket at my expense even if I do enjoy the playing. We can rehearse for free and enjoy that.
If there is only going to be handful of people there then I don't blame you for pulling out. You are not going to get useful publicity or contacts.
I would email him back and agree to do 'play' for free but you say need transport and someone to lug your gear. Only fair I think.
It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't buy the premise.
I quit the music business as a career back in the early 80's because I couldn't make a decent living at it, and it's only gotten worse since then. I don't see musicians playing for free as being the cause, but rather the effect of there being just too many musicians wanting to get out and play for the market to bear. As a result, that skillset has diminished value on the street. Every one of us is part of the problem no matter what our economic demands are.
I've said this before: if all the musicians were to go on strike until pay scales came up, I believe that one result would be that many of us would never get another gig. That's not good for everyone, only for some.
No, you're the one that's been missing the point all along.
It's up to the individual whether they want to get paid or not.
There are absolutely no rules about it.
Still, if someone can't make it pay off to be a musician they'd better find another line of work to support themselves and keep music as a hobby that may result in a gig every once in a while.
I wonder where you stand on "pay to play" venues?
True, it's totally up to you whether you want to provide a valuable service - your music - for free to a for-profit club where everyone else working there is making money.
There are no rules. Any musician is free to work for free so that they can get lots more no-pay jobs. Lots of club owners and others want something for nothing, so there will be lots of those great opportunities.
There are no rules. Any musician is free to work for free so that they can get lots more no-pay jobs. Lots of club owners and others want something for nothing, so there will be lots of those great opportunities.
You continuously make this point in a condescending manner to those who do work for free. Have you considered that the people playing for free already understand this fact and just don't give a damn?
If I may ask, How much does your band charge to do a 45 minute set? And how much money do you estimate your band makes for a club in said 45 minutes?
Aye, but there's the rub, innit? How "valuable" is that service? It's only as valuable as someone is willing to pay for it, no matter what you think it's worth. It's not just too many musicians who are willing to play for cheap who are driving the price down, it's too many musicians, period.
Look at it this way: Say an accountant makes $80K/yr. Now what if for some reason every college student in the world changes his major to accounting tomorrow? What do you think an accountant's job is worth once all those folks have graduated?
That's what has happened in the music business. Musicians in the public eye have shown what a cool and fun thing it is to be a musician, and consequently everybody (figuratively speaking) wants to be one. Instruments are easily and cheaply had, and so is recording equipment. Everybody thinks they can be a contender. Everybody wants to make a living at it. It won't work.
