Am I diva for not wanting to play for free?

[Rico_2212]

Who is crying/whining? Not most of the people in this thread as far as I can see. Simply stating opinions. Like you.

Of course you're right Brad. I think alot of us on BOTH sides are getting overly sensative. I just don't think that a new band doing a free show is taking food out of a pro's mouth. Gigs that pay a hired gun are usually more upscale and involve playing covers for festivals and corperate functions. Most of the rock or metal scene (in my area at least,) is pretty much play your originals, sell what you can(cd's, merchandise, whatever,) and try to have a good time doing it. For this scene to survive, everyone pretty much has to also help to support the local scene. With pro gigs it seems to be just as much marketing yourself as playing shows. Sure we love to play music as much as everybody else, but we also deserve to be heard, and not just in the practice room. There is room for everyone who wants to play, for love and money. When someone takes a free gig, they're probably not taking someone's paying gig from them. Sorry if I worded it a little too harsh. Now can't we all just get along? Now back to the original thread.

 

[wellshuxley]

I agree with everyone who has pointed out that economic circumstances are a huge factor in this matter.

I make sure that every gig I take pays at least $50 or so, because my schedule is such that every song I have to learn takes a toll on whatever else I am doing that week. I have no money, a full course load, 2 jobs, and I teach a couple of lessons each week (volunteer), so the only wiggle room I have is the number of hours I can devote to sleeping! To me, the fun of playing an unpaid gig simply isn't worth the incurred stress.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Of course you're right Brad. I think alot of us on BOTH sides are getting overly sensative. I just don't think that a new band doing a free show is taking food out of a pro's mouth. Gigs that pay a hired gun are usually more upscale and involve playing covers for festivals and corperate functions. Most of the rock or metal scene (in my area at least,) is pretty much play your originals, sell what you can(cd's, merchandise, whatever,) and try to have a good time doing it. For this scene to survive, everyone pretty much has to also help to support the local scene. With pro gigs it seems to be just as much marketing yourself as playing shows. Sure we love to play music as much as everybody else, but we also deserve to be heard, and not just in the practice room. There is room for everyone who wants to play, for love and money. When someone takes a free gig, they're probably not taking someone's paying gig from them. Sorry if I worded it a little too harsh. Now can't we all just get along? Now back to the original thread.

Agreed with the caveat that people haven't been limiting this to new bands or the type of music the free band plays.

I know I'm not sensitive about this because I worked to put myself in a position where the gigs someone would do for free really aren't on my radar anyway. I'm not your guy. That is not to say I don't do a backyard gig or two... the last one I did was with a nine piece band and I got paid $175. I'm down with that. I've been paid as much as $500 for a backyard event so it kind of cracks me up when people look down on this kind of work. I'll take it.

I also agree that establishing your value is the best way to combat this "competiton". Some will still choose free over smokin' but they weren't real contenders for your services anyway.

I also know that for the people not working on that level free or low pay bands do compete for the same work.

 

[mongo2]

That is not to say I don't do a backyard gig or two... the last one I did was with a nine piece band and I got paid $175. I'm down with that. I've been paid as much as $500 for a backyard event so it kind of cracks me up when people look down on this kind of work. I'll take it.

Around here the private party "backyard" gigs pay considerably more than the club/restuarant gigs.

 

[Rocky]

Wow 500 to play a backyard party? I am DEFINITELY in the wrong part of the country..lol
I love parties!

 

[TheVoiceless]

Not for nothing, but if a musician is starving perhaps they should re-think their career choice.

Or maybe they are just starting out and working their way up???

 

[Nomad5]

Wow 500 to play a backyard party? I am DEFINITELY in the wrong part of the country..lol
I love parties!

That's the least I would take for a backyard party. The truth is that they're much more difficult, in my experience.

"here's an extension cord....is there anything else you need?"

....then later.....

"c'mon, let my buddy play a few - he's AWESOME..." (of course, this is coming from the guy who's paying you)

I've had more gear damaged over the years and more power issues at backyard parties than at clubs.

Cheers,


Just my opinion, of course.....

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Or maybe they are just starting out and working their way up???

If you are just starting out you should probably be working at something else which is solid and can support you. Dive into going full "pro" musician when you know it can support you.

 

[Tampabass]

C'mon now, when you're playing in the backyard, enjoying nature while you're expressing your artistic self, you should be doing that for free, right?

I mean, it's all just for fun, right? Why would you even care whether you got paid for your time and talent (and expenses)?

(insert sarcasm here)

 

[TheVoiceless]

TheVoiceless: I totally disagree - nobody playing for free is taking anything out of starving musicians' mouths. Really.

First, if your competition is really people who play for free, then you need to upgrade your act or your marketing to move up the food chain. These guys playing for free aren't holding anyone down by taking up the non-paying gigs.

Second, if you want to make a living at music, you need to avoid the "play for free" market. Any club or venue which does not want to pay musicians for gigs will only switch to DJs or jukeboxes if bands refused to play for free.

If you want to make a living at gigging, you need to move up market to compete for paying gigs and leave the non-paying gigs behind. For some it is a question of improving the music or the show. For others, it is a question of improving the promotion. Either way, if you don't like free gigs, move up the food chain to where the paying gigs are.

I see your point, but I still see bands getting taken advantage of. The problem is that there is always SOME money to be made playing live music. And completely FREE is bad for musicians. Because not everybody has found their dream gig or got their dream gig making a $100 a man. Some of us are trying to move up the ladder. There are hundreds of other reasons why someone may not be in the position to make good money. But if even if the worst band is playing a potentially paying gig for free, they are ruining it for everyone.

Hey I am not saying charge your college room mate to play his 30th birthday. But don't give the club owner a freebie.

 

[TheVoiceless]

If you are just starting out you should probably be working at something else which is solid and can support you. Dive into going full "pro" musician when you know it can support you.

HUM??? I can see that you really have no idea on how it works. Have you ever asked a guy what it was like being signed to a major label and being broke?

The point................ you have missed.

 

[Staccato]

God bless America, right. Everyone looking out for themselves and no one else. Very sad.

Woot!

Yep, pocketed $25-50 a day for teaching pilots to solo, fly on instruments, aerobatics, including spins. Why? So many young, start-up instructors would give it away for too little of an amount. It was risky work if you talk to an life insurance actuary!

This limited the market 'contract' amount to $15 cash/hr. (pre-tax) in the early-mid 90's. Yes, it was my living (wife+kids), and it reeked, too!

 

[Tampabass]

Exactly. What's so hard to understand about this?

1.When you offer something of value - your music - for nothing to a for-profit club where everyone else is making money, you're being taken advantage of.

2.For a local scene, with bands trying to play local places, bands -- pro bands, cover bands, original bands, weekend warriors, whatever -- that play for free DO have an impact, driving down local prices for bands. Club owners aren't stupid or unobservant. If the going rate is $500 for a band, in order to compete they'll pay $500. If the going rate is 2 beers/set, they'll pay 2 beers/set. For the folks out there trying to make living in your town, playing for nothing CAN have a negative impact, as those musicians generally stitch together any number of gigs to put together a living.

And no, I'm not a full-time pro player - just trying to be supportive of those guys.

I see your point, but I still see bands getting taken advantage of. The problem is that there is always SOME money to be made playing live music. And completely FREE is bad for musicians. Because not everybody has found their dream gig or got their dream gig making a $100 a man. Some of us are trying to move up the ladder. There are hundreds of other reasons why someone may not be in the position to make good money. But if even if the worst band is playing a potentially paying gig for free, they are ruining it for everyone.

Hey I am not saying charge your college room mate to play his 30th birthday. But don't give the club owner a freebie.

 

[MatticusMania]

That's the least I would take for a backyard party. The truth is that they're much more difficult, in my experience.

"here's an extension cord....is there anything else you need?"

You need more than an extension cord?

"c'mon, let my buddy play a few - he's AWESOME..." (of course, this is coming from the guy who's paying you)

I've had more gear damaged over the years and more power issues at backyard parties than at clubs.

That part I wouldnt want to deal with, but I dont have a problem telling people they can't use my gear. I havent had anything broken at gigs, though I did once spill my beer on my pedalboard (it survived), around our parts the problem is more often that the cops have been called by angry neighbors.

C'mon now, when you're playing in the backyard, enjoying nature while you're expressing your artistic self, you should be doing that for free, right?

I mean, it's all just for fun, right? Why would you even care whether you got paid for your time and talent (and expenses)?

(insert sarcasm here)

Ive played many a buddies party for free. Well, I guess it wasnt always technically free, they did buy a keg just for the bands....

 

[Rocky]

Woot!

Yep, pocketed $25-50 a day for teaching pilots to solo, fly on instruments, aerobatics, including spins. Why? So many young, start-up instructors would give it away for too little of an amount. It was risky work if you talk to an life insurance actuary!

This limited the market 'contract' amount to $15 cash/hr. (pre-tax) in the early-mid 90's. Yes, it was my living (wife+kids), and it reeked, too!

Hmmm, now you are in the wrong part of the country! I charge 50 an hour as an independent flight instructor here in L.A. of course I have been teaching for the last six years with a 100% pass rate, but I also know guys who charge seventy five an hour, and are quite busy.

 

[ggunn]

In a somewhat related story...

When I was in a cover band, we were playing a club gig, and during a break a guy approached us about playing his daughter's wedding. He asked up how much we charged and we told him our going rate. He thought for a minute, and then said, "That's for a four hour gig, right? We'll only need you for a couple of hours, so I'll pay you half that."

I responded, "We play for free because we love to play; what you are paying for is for us to schlep all our gear to and from the gig and set it all up and tear it down. If for all that work we only get to play half as long, we're gonna charge you more, not less."

We didn't get the gig

 

[Eric Perry]

In a somewhat related story...

When I was in a cover band, we were playing a club gig, and during a break a guy approached us about playing his daughter's wedding. He asked up how much we charged and we told him our going rate. He thought for a minute, and then said, "That's for a four hour gig, right? We'll only need you for a couple of hours, so I'll pay you half that."

I responded, "We play for free because we love to play; what you are paying for is for us to schlep all our gear to and from the gig and set it all up and tear it down. If for all that work we only get to play half as long, we're gonna charge you more, not less."

We didn't get the gig

Haha! Awesome!

 

[ggunn]

I see your point, but I still see bands getting taken advantage of. The problem is that there is always SOME money to be made playing live music. And completely FREE is bad for musicians. Because not everybody has found their dream gig or got their dream gig making a $100 a man. Some of us are trying to move up the ladder. There are hundreds of other reasons why someone may not be in the position to make good money. But if even if the worst band is playing a potentially paying gig for free, they are ruining it for everyone.

Let me be clear about something. I/we don't generally offer up front to play a gig for free; we always try to get something for it if we can. But if it's clear that it's a freebie or nothing, and it's worth it to us (W:F+M) to play it, then yes, we'll take the gig. If that's "ruining it for everyone" I am very sorry to hear it, but we are taking the gig just the same.

 

[HolmeBass]

You are not a jerk for wanting to get paid enough to cover your travel expenses. You're not a jerk if you're a 20+ year pro and feel like you should make at least $50, or $100, or whatever your number is. I don't like playing for free myself, although sometimes I still do, but only for really sweet gigs for really sweet people, or for a benefit for a good cause.

 

[Brad Johnson]

In a somewhat related story...

When I was in a cover band, we were playing a club gig, and during a break a guy approached us about playing his daughter's wedding. He asked up how much we charged and we told him our going rate. He thought for a minute, and then said, "That's for a four hour gig, right? We'll only need you for a couple of hours, so I'll pay you half that."

I responded, "We play for free because we love to play; what you are paying for is for us to schlep all our gear to and from the gig and set it all up and tear it down. If for all that work we only get to play half as long, we're gonna charge you more, not less."

We didn't get the gig

Sounds like Dad was a cheapskate.


Weddings and corproate gigs pay the most around here, other than a fulltime hit at a large church with multiple services. It's a good idea to already have your gig type pricing planned out ahead of time. Weddings typically aren't just about playing time, it's the time you'll be tied up at the function in total that counts. Dad probably wasn't considering that. If I have to show up and be set up for a 4:00pm soundcheck on a reception that starts at 7:30, I'm not just obligated for the hours of the actual performance.