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Am I diva for not wanting to play for free?
- Thread starter BillyIVbass
- Start date
Who is crying/whining? Not most of the people in this thread as far as I can see. Simply stating opinions. Like you.
I should've put "close friends" in quotation marks
. Way too often they're the first to try and take advantage of you.That's why I don't sell items to friends or family as a rule. Even with full disclosure, they often still expect a lifetime warranty on something they buy from me. If I sell to a stranger, that problem doesn't exist.
I agree, actual honest to goodness friends would want to make sure you're taken care of even at their expense. I'm the same way when I make a commitment.
Your time, your rates, your decision. If someone does not want to hire you that is their business whatever the reason, as it is yours to accept or decline. But for me if someone is getting "snooty" because i won't play for free, then that's not the type of person i want in my life.
Some people are genuinely clueless.
I've subbed on gigs and had band members ask me what I got paid. I tell them to talk to the person who paid me, that's a business arrangement between myself and that person... if they choose to disclose it, fine. IOW none of your business and what you make is none of mine. Of course they typically don't ask the leader.
A sub is not a band member... I have no idea why that's such a hard thing to grasp for some.
This in my experience has been the rule vs. the exception. How much free work do you do with no return before you pull the plug on it. At what point does that carrot lose it's allure? Want to see what my band looks like in performance? Here's a video and a list of my upcoming gigs.
If you're going to play for free why not set up your own showcase and invite people with a genuine interest in booking good entertainment? That IME pays off far more often than the bar that can't pay a band containing a few patrons who don't book bands.
Strangely enough, I know I've picked up far more work off of paying gigs.
Hey Money Bags,
Then just do the working class musicians a favor, when your gigging for free, please try and do it in a fashion that doesn't keep food out of starving musicians mouths.
That's why the blanket statement "no pay no play" is to protect all parties involved.
I have a regular job so I must fall in the weekend warrior group. Being in an original band, there are times I will take a free gig. As long as its not too far, and the place at least gives us free beer, the following I consider my payoff:
-I consider all my bandmates good friends, so going out together on a Friday/Saturday night with no door fee and free beer is not something I could do without the gig.
-Like stated before, music is a form of art, and I'll take every opportunity to express that art that I can.
-The high of being on stage performing is priceless, along with safe and legal. I could spend a countless amount of money trying to replicate that feeling.
-Here in Southern California, the "chumps" some TBers talk about are the ones basically paying for their own gigs, having to sell tickets. I've done that before, and there's nothing worse then becoming a salesman to your friends, family, and acquaintances.
-I'd rather the bars and clubs I go to have free bands, than have rap and hip hop played all night.
-Playing music never feels like work to me. If it did it wouldn't be a hobby.
-I didn't spend money on nice equipment to "be professional", I spent it because I liked the tone, features, or "spunk" of it.
As said before, there are too many musicians and too few gigs. As with any field, just because you are good at what you do doesn't mean you are going to get paid. You can go to school and do all you can to be an accountant, but you are not guaranteed a job as an accountant. If there are too many accountants, you will not get hired. You either offer to do it for free, or find a new field to get a job in. So for those complaining they can't get paid for gigs, maybe its time you find a new job.
-I consider all my bandmates good friends, so going out together on a Friday/Saturday night with no door fee and free beer is not something I could do without the gig.
-Like stated before, music is a form of art, and I'll take every opportunity to express that art that I can.
-The high of being on stage performing is priceless, along with safe and legal. I could spend a countless amount of money trying to replicate that feeling.
-Here in Southern California, the "chumps" some TBers talk about are the ones basically paying for their own gigs, having to sell tickets. I've done that before, and there's nothing worse then becoming a salesman to your friends, family, and acquaintances.
-I'd rather the bars and clubs I go to have free bands, than have rap and hip hop played all night.
-Playing music never feels like work to me. If it did it wouldn't be a hobby.
-I didn't spend money on nice equipment to "be professional", I spent it because I liked the tone, features, or "spunk" of it.
As said before, there are too many musicians and too few gigs. As with any field, just because you are good at what you do doesn't mean you are going to get paid. You can go to school and do all you can to be an accountant, but you are not guaranteed a job as an accountant. If there are too many accountants, you will not get hired. You either offer to do it for free, or find a new field to get a job in. So for those complaining they can't get paid for gigs, maybe its time you find a new job.
Hey Money Bags,
Then just do the working class musicians a favor, when your gigging for free, please try and do it in a fashion that doesn't keep food out of starving musicians mouths.
That's why the blanket statement "no pay no play" is to protect all parties involved.
LOL!! "Money Bags". I like the sound of that!! (So did my ex-wife when we went to the divorce court.)
As far as keeping food out of starving musicians' mouths, you can rest easy. Playing music is only a hobby for me, and I don't gig often enough to constitute a financial threat to anyone. No worries, mate!
That was rude to say.:scowl:I think the point here is that its hard enough to get paid being a musician and that when people are playing gigs ( let me state the fact that some gigs are ok to play for free, I'm talking about the ones that the person hiring the band is just being cheap) for free, it hurts all party's involved.
I would rather be offered $25 a guy and a meal then being asked to play for free.
Hey Money Bags,
Then just do the working class musicians a favor, when your gigging for free, please try and do it in a fashion that doesn't keep food out of starving musicians mouths.
That's why the blanket statement "no pay no play" is to protect all parties involved.
Not for nothing, but if a musician is starving perhaps they should re-think their career choice.
LOL!! Thanks for taking that with stride
the only reason I am getting uppity is that I would like to pursue music as a main source of income, supplementing by giving lessons and working part time when need be. As long as people in your position see the other side of the coin. That's all I ask for.
jive1
Commercial User
Here's what I've learned about free gigs.
- Playing free gigs usually leads to more free gigs. Plenty of bar owners talk to each other, and they have an idea of what bands are getting paid. If you're playing at X bar for free, the guy at Z bar usually knows it. Why would the guy at bar Z pay more than bar X does? Unless the band has a great draw, there's no reason for one venue to pay significantly more than another.
- Playing those backyard BBQs, basement parties, usually don't lead to more lucrative gigs either unless there's a booking agent, A&R guy, venue owner, etc there. And even then, you have to be good and marketable. Many times the folks having these events at home aren't usually the folks who go out to clubs. And they may dig your original music for a little backyard party, but when it comes time for their wedding, bar mitzvah, etc. they are either hiring a pro band or a DJ because they want to hear covers done well that grandma can appreciate.
- Charity gigs are what they are. Expecting future paid gigs from it isn't likely. Even when they do their black tie gala affair, they will still hire a pro band or DJ. And if they don't want to spend money on the band, it's usually because they want to spend more money on the caterers, florist, etc. Charity events are usually fundraisers, and food and entertainment are good ways of getting donations.
But, if you want to play these kinds of gigs for the fun of it, that's your prerogative. Don't expect much more than maybe adding some people to your mailing list, and selling a little bit of merch. Expecting bigger gigs from it, isn't very realistic.
As far as "free" musicians driving down the value of music. It's there to some degree, but I don't think it's as bad as some make it out to be. The increase in bands, the reduction of live venues, the prolifieration of technology, laws against smoking/drinking, and people's tastes play a big factor too.
- First, cover bands and original bands are different entities for different audiences and venues. Sure, apples compete with oranges in the produce section, but no-one buys an apple expecting it to taste like an orange.
- Free bands are rarely in demand. If they were in demand, they wouldn't be playing for free. There's plenty of bands and musicians out there that don't have a high demand, and they aren't in competion with the "pro" bands that are in demand.
- Where I see the value of music being driven down usually from the person doing the booking. A venue wants to try out live music, but doesn't want to spend any money or take any risk, so they get a free band to fill the bill. The free band doesn't sound as good, and/or doesn't draw as much, and they deem the live music thing as a failure and either never pay, or stop doing live music. Instead, they could pay a little more for a better band or better fit and possibly turn a profit.
Just my measley 2 cents. YMMV
- Playing free gigs usually leads to more free gigs. Plenty of bar owners talk to each other, and they have an idea of what bands are getting paid. If you're playing at X bar for free, the guy at Z bar usually knows it. Why would the guy at bar Z pay more than bar X does? Unless the band has a great draw, there's no reason for one venue to pay significantly more than another.
- Playing those backyard BBQs, basement parties, usually don't lead to more lucrative gigs either unless there's a booking agent, A&R guy, venue owner, etc there. And even then, you have to be good and marketable. Many times the folks having these events at home aren't usually the folks who go out to clubs. And they may dig your original music for a little backyard party, but when it comes time for their wedding, bar mitzvah, etc. they are either hiring a pro band or a DJ because they want to hear covers done well that grandma can appreciate.
- Charity gigs are what they are. Expecting future paid gigs from it isn't likely. Even when they do their black tie gala affair, they will still hire a pro band or DJ. And if they don't want to spend money on the band, it's usually because they want to spend more money on the caterers, florist, etc. Charity events are usually fundraisers, and food and entertainment are good ways of getting donations.
But, if you want to play these kinds of gigs for the fun of it, that's your prerogative. Don't expect much more than maybe adding some people to your mailing list, and selling a little bit of merch. Expecting bigger gigs from it, isn't very realistic.
As far as "free" musicians driving down the value of music. It's there to some degree, but I don't think it's as bad as some make it out to be. The increase in bands, the reduction of live venues, the prolifieration of technology, laws against smoking/drinking, and people's tastes play a big factor too.
- First, cover bands and original bands are different entities for different audiences and venues. Sure, apples compete with oranges in the produce section, but no-one buys an apple expecting it to taste like an orange.
- Free bands are rarely in demand. If they were in demand, they wouldn't be playing for free. There's plenty of bands and musicians out there that don't have a high demand, and they aren't in competion with the "pro" bands that are in demand.
- Where I see the value of music being driven down usually from the person doing the booking. A venue wants to try out live music, but doesn't want to spend any money or take any risk, so they get a free band to fill the bill. The free band doesn't sound as good, and/or doesn't draw as much, and they deem the live music thing as a failure and either never pay, or stop doing live music. Instead, they could pay a little more for a better band or better fit and possibly turn a profit.
Just my measley 2 cents. YMMV
LOL!! Thanks for taking that with stride
As long as people in your position see the other side of the coin. That's all I ask for.
I most definitely see the other side of the "coin" (no pun intended!) And I hope your pursuit in the music field proves to be highly successful and lucrative!
Hey Money Bags,
Then just do the working class musicians a favor, when your gigging for free, please try and do it in a fashion that doesn't keep food out of starving musicians mouths.
That's why the blanket statement "no pay no play" is to protect all parties involved.
TheVoiceless: I totally disagree - nobody playing for free is taking anything out of starving musicians' mouths. Really.
First, if your competition is really people who play for free, then you need to upgrade your act or your marketing to move up the food chain. These guys playing for free aren't holding anyone down by taking up the non-paying gigs.
Second, if you want to make a living at music, you need to avoid the "play for free" market. Any club or venue which does not want to pay musicians for gigs will only switch to DJs or jukeboxes if bands refused to play for free.
If you want to make a living at gigging, you need to move up market to compete for paying gigs and leave the non-paying gigs behind. For some it is a question of improving the music or the show. For others, it is a question of improving the promotion. Either way, if you don't like free gigs, move up the food chain to where the paying gigs are.
How would you propose he do that? Play out of tune? Ignore the drummer? Show up drunk?
LOL!! Thanks for taking that with stride
As long as people in your position see the other side of the coin. That's all I ask for.
Supplementing your income by teaching lessons is a great way to make money in the music field. My gf teaches piano and makes $30 an hour teaching. She also teaches a music class (fun educational songs) at a preschool. She's in a band as well, but they dont generally get paid either.
How would you propose he do that? Play out of tune? Ignore the drummer? Show up drunk?
I could always just hit a wrong note now and then (which unfortunately I have been known to do more often than I would like to admit). Who put those wrong notes on my fretboard, anyway???
