I've got absolutely no problem playing for free-but I don't present myself as a hired gun, either.
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Am I diva for not wanting to play for free?
- Thread starter BillyIVbass
- Start date
Sounds about right. And it's cool that some people don't mind playing for free... but know that in many cases, while you may not feel like a chump, that's exactly how the people who are using you look at you.
I just had a guy pull this crap on me (treating me like a chump)... a $200/man gig, I find out he's paid everyone but me and has been ducking me for weeks. We'll eventually cross paths.
Sorry to hear you got stiffed. Did you offer to play the gig for free beforehand? I am amazed at the crap people try to get away with. Last week I played at S.I.R. studios here in Hollywood. Now this studio is known for equipment rental so most musicians would not think they needed to bring a rig. I was told by our band leader that this was a "jam" situation, and we were going to play maybe 3-5 tunes the most. I figured hey why not its a great stage, I don't have to bring any gear, and it will be fun. We get up to play 3 songs as this is what they told us what we could expect, and the only gear available belongs to the band that did a showcase earlier. My singer starts bitching at me because I won't plug into the bass players amp without his consent. The sound man is acting like we should have brought our own gear, and all this without getting paid..lol I told the sound guy I was not about to bring any gear to a studio know for equipment rentals to play 15 minutes for free, especially when it was suppose to be a jam. I further told my singer she was crazy if she thought I would just use someones gear without their permission especially since she knows how I am. Trust me when I say I would not be happy if you didn't ask me! It wound up that I found and asked the bass player if I could play,and he was cool about it. My buddy works at S.I.R. and he told me the guy putting on the "shows" is really cheap, and he didn't want to pay for the gear. Hmmm, makes way more sense to me, lets have 7 bands play in 3 hours and get them to bring the gear! It amazes me that the more you give these clowns the more they act like you owe them.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
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- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
An Addendum to my earlier post : my words to live by..
It doesn't matter what you are worth.. It matters what you Negotiate. Period.
It doesn't matter what you are worth.. It matters what you Negotiate. Period.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
I have rehearsal at that SIR many times when working in LA. and they have everything under the sun at that place.. everything..
Yes they do so I didn't think I would need to bring a rig to play 3 songs at a jam, but I guess I was wrong..lol
Maybe the miscommunication happened in your first email where your terms weren't stated up front?
IMO, as long as you put your terms up front, either the other party will accept them or not.
If you come in after the fact with $$ request, yeah, I'd be getting snooty with you as well.
The. Classic MBA answer is it depends. If you can gain something else of value then do it for free. If then pass. People who make blanket statements either way do so because they aren't good at business and need to dumb it down.
- Jun 3, 2009
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- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Geez, if they can't or won't take $20 out of their pockets then walk. Let them get snooty. They aren't really a serious or professional band anyway, because you don't hire someone and wait to make the deal, and also you don't change the terms after you've hired them, unless the person you hired misses rehearsals, gets drunk at rehearsals, does something at the gig that pisses off the owner/booker, et cetera.
While what anyone takes or doesn't is an individual choice, they called you to sub. You have to put in several rehearsals (so I'm guessing its not a wedding band or regular cover band), learn completely new stuff, lug gear, yada yada. All you are asking is for the Quarter Pounder with cheese and some petrol? These guys should be happy.
I often have to build a backing band for some shows, like I will be doing at the beginning of September. I'll be getting $250 for the show. Since its original tunes no one knows, the drummer and guitars will have to put in at least one two hour rehearsal per week plus a rehearsal the day before the show. Drummers aren't cheap (guitarists are practically free
so I'll wind up paying the drummer $175 and the two guitars each $75. So I'm into this gig for $325. Do the math.
But this gig is important for MY career, so I will pay and take the hit. It's only fair. They don't know me from Adam, and they most likely will not benefit in the future from my show.
Lastly, and most importantly, don't ever tell them "won't take a hit for you..." A better way to put it is, "Hey, I'm not in your band. You need me to play, and I'd be happy to do it. But my time is as valuable as yours, and all I'm asking for is fair compensation. If you can't or won't be able to handle even $20, then I am sorry but I am not the bassist for you and this gig. Good luck, and I hope you have a good show."
That is what I'd say...
While what anyone takes or doesn't is an individual choice, they called you to sub. You have to put in several rehearsals (so I'm guessing its not a wedding band or regular cover band), learn completely new stuff, lug gear, yada yada. All you are asking is for the Quarter Pounder with cheese and some petrol? These guys should be happy.
I often have to build a backing band for some shows, like I will be doing at the beginning of September. I'll be getting $250 for the show. Since its original tunes no one knows, the drummer and guitars will have to put in at least one two hour rehearsal per week plus a rehearsal the day before the show. Drummers aren't cheap (guitarists are practically free
so I'll wind up paying the drummer $175 and the two guitars each $75. So I'm into this gig for $325. Do the math. But this gig is important for MY career, so I will pay and take the hit. It's only fair. They don't know me from Adam, and they most likely will not benefit in the future from my show.
Lastly, and most importantly, don't ever tell them "won't take a hit for you..." A better way to put it is, "Hey, I'm not in your band. You need me to play, and I'd be happy to do it. But my time is as valuable as yours, and all I'm asking for is fair compensation. If you can't or won't be able to handle even $20, then I am sorry but I am not the bassist for you and this gig. Good luck, and I hope you have a good show."
That is what I'd say...
Wow, way to lay on the guilt. I guess all the Catholic Girls* who are giving it away should feel guilty, too, for driving down the price of sex on the street, huh?
I am going to play a gig for free on Friday. It's not that I have an aversion to getting paid to play, it's just that the venue is operating on a shoestring and cannot afford to pay the bands who play there. It's a cool little place, though, and we want the gig. It's play for free or don't play; we choose to play.
(BTW, none of us are rich, but none of us depend on music for a living. Money was not the reason we started playing music and it's not the reason we play now.)
It's a supply and demand thing, and there is a glut of musicians on the market. Musicians who are willing to play for free aren't the problem, it's just that there are too many musicians chasing too few paying gigs. It's the way the Free Market works, for better or worse.
*Invalid Link Removed
If you wear the same outfit more than once, and own less than 10 000 pairs of shoes... you're probably not a diva. 
Someone posted a pay calculator link here last week so you could calculate how much you should be paid in 2010 dollars based on what musicians used to make in previous years (then adjusted for inflation). It was a pretty depressing link as inflation has changed costs but musicians are still making the same dollar amount, more or less, and it's mostly due to the over-supply and demand thing (technology notwithstanding).
Another pay thread!
Here's my take that I've said before:
Original Bands: Take what you can get, but I still think that 3/4 of your gigs should pay you something. Good luck making decent money- you're an original band.
Cover Bands: I'll do a free gig if it's an audition of some sort, but the next one better have a nice check attached (I'll play legit charity gigs as well). If I'm not making decent money 3 months into the project, I'm out.
Here's my take that I've said before:
Original Bands: Take what you can get, but I still think that 3/4 of your gigs should pay you something. Good luck making decent money- you're an original band.
Cover Bands: I'll do a free gig if it's an audition of some sort, but the next one better have a nice check attached (I'll play legit charity gigs as well). If I'm not making decent money 3 months into the project, I'm out.
The more that musicians/bands play for free, the more that club-owners and others will expect musicians and bands to play for free.
Playing free, particularly at places where other workers (bartenders, servers, doormen, owner, dishwashers, guys taking out the trash) are making money, simply devalues what musicians do, and makes it hard for other musicians to make a living playing music.
Whether you're doing it because you love it is sort of irrelevant - of course you're playing bass because you love it. Getting paid for your services and the value you add to that venue is the point.
Playing free, particularly at places where other workers (bartenders, servers, doormen, owner, dishwashers, guys taking out the trash) are making money, simply devalues what musicians do, and makes it hard for other musicians to make a living playing music.
Whether you're doing it because you love it is sort of irrelevant - of course you're playing bass because you love it. Getting paid for your services and the value you add to that venue is the point.
Why don't people get this. I play for free at church. I will do a charity gig if I think it's something I want to support. I try not to leave my house for less than $50, and sometimes that's charity!
I will let my pay drop (a very little) below $100/gig IF the venue is within 10-15 minutes from my front door and/or if there is (reasonably reliable/decent) backline supplied.
If that makes me a diva, then by gum, I'm a diva.
I know it seems that way, but it's not that simple; it really is the Free Market at work. If there were fewer musicians/groups than gigs, then the gigs would be bidding against each other for our services. That's not the case; there are far more musicians than there are gigs. When there is an oversupply of any commodity, the price drops.
I know that isn't what "working musicians" want to hear, but you can't drive up the price on an oversupplied market. It's part of a larger issue affecting all aspects of the music industry these days.
What "should be" and what "is" are frequently two different things. You must deal with the world in terms of what "is". Unfortunately, the way it "is" in some places, your choices frequently are to play for free or not play. It's why I quit the music business as a career and went back to school.
Everyone's personal situation is different.
For me, I have a professional career (non-music related) where I already make plenty of money. So when it comes to playing bass, I could care less whether I get paid or not because I play music for the sheer joy of playing music. And I will continue to do that for the remainder of my life. But again, that's my choice. If others choose to insist on being compensated, that is their prerogative and it would be totally inappropriate for me to tell someone else what they should or should not do. And likewise, it is totally inappropriate for someone to tell me what I should or should not do. It's freedom of choice. Too many people have convinced themselves that they are the "all knowing ones" and that what they say is what should be. I just sit back and crack up at such mental masturbation, and think to myself "thank you for the free entertainment!" Like John Lennon sang, "well they give me all kinds of advice, designed to enlighten me."
For me, I have a professional career (non-music related) where I already make plenty of money. So when it comes to playing bass, I could care less whether I get paid or not because I play music for the sheer joy of playing music. And I will continue to do that for the remainder of my life. But again, that's my choice. If others choose to insist on being compensated, that is their prerogative and it would be totally inappropriate for me to tell someone else what they should or should not do. And likewise, it is totally inappropriate for someone to tell me what I should or should not do. It's freedom of choice. Too many people have convinced themselves that they are the "all knowing ones" and that what they say is what should be. I just sit back and crack up at such mental masturbation, and think to myself "thank you for the free entertainment!" Like John Lennon sang, "well they give me all kinds of advice, designed to enlighten me."
