Am I diva for not wanting to play for free?

[onestring]

When you play for nothing, you're telling people that's what you're worth.

That (with the exception of benefits/volunteering).

It's hard, because a lot of your competition is willing to play for free. That sucks, but it's reality.

It sounds like you are not asking for the moon and are reasonable and flexible. Great. But maybe you need to work on your finesse and diplomacy a little. The conversation should end with them feeling GOOD about you wanting to be paid for playing, hopefully even agreeing. If you are coming off like a jerk, maybe put some time into honing your pitch. Be a class act if you want to get paid like one.

 

[IdealWay]

I wouldn't play it, that's for sure. Last gig I filled in on I practiced for about 8 hours to learn the songs and made $120, a free meal, free drinks, and had travel expenses covered, which seemed about right for the amount of time I had invested. But each individual's situation is different. If I had nothing but time on my hands I'd probably jump on any gig I could get, and if I didn't have a family to provide for I wouldn't be as adamant about getting payed for every gig. There's also the aspect of maintaining artistic integrity and being compensated for the work you do to allow people to partake in the musical experience. I think you did the right thing though, and if the guy doesn't understand the very simple and solid reasoning behind your decision not to play then that's his deal.

 

[ggunn]

For me, it's an equation with three variables - the Work, the Fun, and the Money. If the Work is greater than the Fun plus the Money, I stay home.

Corollary: If you must be a whore, be a well-paid one.

 

[Brad Johnson]

That (with the exception of benefits/volunteering).

It's hard, because a lot of your competition is willing to play for free. That sucks, but it's reality.

It sounds like you are not asking for the moon and are reasonable and flexible. Great. But maybe you need to work on your finesse and diplomacy a little. The conversation should end with them feeling GOOD about you wanting to be paid for playing, hopefully even agreeing. If you are coming off like a jerk, maybe put some time into honing your pitch. Be a class act if you want to get paid like one.

None of my actual competiton is willing to play for free. I'm not just happy to be out of the house.

 

[MatticusMania]

Yup.

For my part, I really like to play out, so I'm perfectly willing to play for free... But I try to avoid playing music I don't much like. If someone needs a sub for a "Classic Rock" band, i can do it, but make them P A Y!

Thats a good way to put it. If Im out with my band playing my music Im more than happy to not get paid. If I have to put in effort to learn someone else's songs, rehearse them, and play music Im not particularly interested in, then Im being paid, and paid well.

 

[Time Consumer]

Only times I've played free in the last year was for benefits, friends parties(people who come to a lot of shows) and opening for the Lovehammers at the house of blues which wasn't too bad cuz we got payed very well to open for them the night before at a pre show in a smaller venue.

 

[mr.hughes]

Not being a diva at all. Somebody expects you to turn up, material learnt, with pro quality gear and play professionally - they should pay you. No argument. Yes, there will always be someone else willing to do the gig for free. Fine, go book that person. What do you actually lose by saying no to a free gig?

I'm more than cynical about this, and I really wish I wasn't but experience has taught me otherwise. In 12 years of playing professionally I've lost track of the amount of times someone promised me the world if I did their demo/gig/showcase/whatever for free only to see them out playing a few months later with another bass player on a gig I know they're getting paid well for, selling a cd I played on but didn't get paid for.

I'm incredibly suspicious of someone that wants what I have to offer but isn't willing to pay for it. I can only surmise that if you're trying to book me for free it's because everyone else said no. It's your choice to be a chump in this situation.

The argument that the singer/songwriter isn't getting paid for the gig therefore I shouldn't doesn't hold water with me. I provide a service - I play bass. Try this attitude with your plumber next time you need some work done. "Uh, I'm not getting paid for taking this dump, so are you cool to fix these pipes for free?"

 

[Rocky]

Little background. I'm in my 20s, in my teens I played any gig I could get. Lets say 8 yearsish of non-stop gigging. I have pro-gear and will take the time to learn your songs.

All I ask is minimum you pay for my travel costs (couple bucks for gas and a gourmet meal at a fast food joint) So sure I'll come out for $20 rather than sit at home on my duff.

My friends give me endless hell for this. I don't have much of a day job, I'm building decent contacts and I have plenty of free time to practice on my own.

I've been emailing back and forth about filling in for a show that I can tell there's going to be no people at, 3+ practices and I'll need to lug amps. Today I find out "yeah I can't pay you anything" so I said "Sorry man, I'm not going to take a hit for your gig" I thought I was nice, now this guy is getting snooty.

Am I a jerk or am I just watching my own back? I'm interested to hear how some of you got started and your personal rules on what gigs to take and what ones to not.

Not at all! There are plenty of A holes out there that think they can get musicians to play for free promising "exposure" or contacts or whatever nonsense they think will be the carrot to get free entertainment, and there are way to many idiots that buy into this crap and play for free. Unfortunately the problem will never go away unless the musical community stops buying into this crap and INSISTS on getting paid. You have worked hard to get your talent to the level that can provide that service, you had to buy equipment to do the job, its cost you money to get to the job, and you spend your time playing the job. Getting paid is only right, and if this guy doesn't like it then let him find someone else to play it for free.

 

[Rocky]

Yup.

For my part, I really like to play out, so I'm perfectly willing to play for free... But I try to avoid playing music I don't much like. If someone needs a sub for a "Classic Rock" band, i can do it, but make them P A Y!

Not trying to start anything with you, but I hope you realize that your playing for free because you love to play out is making the situation much worse for those of us trying to make a living playing music. Why pay a bassist when they can get guys like you who will play for free? Besides, wouldn't you enjoy playing out that much more if you went home with more cash in your pocket than you started with? Please re think your position on this as it really does hurt working musicians in the long run.

 

[Tampabass]

THIS (below)... is the ugly truth. And playing originals that you love isn't a reason to play a club for free, either.

A private house party with friends? Yes, do it for free. A benefit for a cause you really believe in? Sure, why not, unless it's a benefit-a-week habit.

But a club where everyone else is making $ except for the band. Absolutely not.

Not trying to start anything with you, but I hope you realize that your playing for free because you love to play out is making the situation much worse for those of us trying to make a living playing music. Why pay a bassist when they can get guys like you who will play for free? Besides, wouldn't you enjoy playing out that much more if you went home with more cash in your pocket than you started with? Please re think your position on this as it really does hurt working musicians in the long run.

 

[svtb15]

Nope you are right..
There is no free lunch in this world..
I only do free gigs for friends in need or benefits for animals in need as in a NO KILL shelter that i support for animals.

Otherwise. Pay me, or else he can call an amateur to do the gig and not know what you are going to get..
$20 that you asked for is nothing and you are being way too nice to go that low...

The guy is being a weenie for not knowing your worth.. and if he is only gonna have 2 people there, what type of track record does he have....the only thing that you are going to get out of it is when you are driving home.. that feeling in the pit of your stomach that you were used.

Now if its a gig in a city where freakin david bowie is gonna be in the crowd and hire you for his next record.. then i would do it for free.. but for some guy that cant even get his extended family to come out to the gig.. Nope.. and i would get the $20 upfront if i were you..
Just my Opinion.

Little background. I'm in my 20s, in my teens I played any gig I could get. Lets say 8 yearsish of non-stop gigging. I have pro-gear and will take the time to learn your songs.

All I ask is minimum you pay for my travel costs (couple bucks for gas and a gourmet meal at a fast food joint) So sure I'll come out for $20 rather than sit at home on my duff.

My friends give me endless hell for this. I don't have much of a day job, I'm building decent contacts and I have plenty of free time to practice on my own.

I've been emailing back and forth about filling in for a show that I can tell there's going to be no people at, 3+ practices and I'll need to lug amps. Today I find out "yeah I can't pay you anything" so I said "Sorry man, I'm not going to take a hit for your gig" I thought I was nice, now this guy is getting snooty.

Am I a jerk or am I just watching my own back? I'm interested to hear how some of you got started and your personal rules on what gigs to take and what ones to not.

 

[shakerattleroll]

Nope you are right..
There is no free lunch in this world..
I only do free gigs for friends in need or benefits for animals in need as in a NO KILL shelter that i support for animals.

Otherwise. Pay me, or else he can call an amateur to do the gig and not know what you are going to get..
$20 that you asked for is nothing and you are being way too nice to go that low...

The guy is being a weenie for not knowing your worth.. and if he is only gonna have 2 people there, what type of track record does he have....the only thing that you are going to get out of it is when you are driving home.. that feeling in the pit of your stomach that you were used.

Now if its a gig in a city where freakin david bowie is gonna be in the crowd and hire you for his next record.. then i would do it for free.. but for some guy that cant even get his extended family to come out to the gig.. Nope.. and i would get the $20 upfront if i were you..
Just my Opinion.

+1.

 

[JTE]

TNSTAAFL*​

Is the gas station going to give you free gas to get to the gig because the leader isn't getting paid? Will the store give you free strings because the leader ain't getting paid? Get the picture...

Anyway, the triangle (as mentioned above) is fun, music, and money. I'll play with one side of the triangle if the other two are solid. So, Lynyrd Skynrd covers better pay well and have fun guys to play with. Small money better be great music to play and wonderful people. Jerks or idiots gotta be GREAT music AND huge pay.

And anyone who says it's OK to play gigs without getting paid because they want their music out there, strikes me as being as narrow minded and vapid as the ones who think it's ALL about the money. If people are getting paid, the musicians should as well. If your music isn't good enough to get paid to play it, then stay in the freakin' basement. And if it's good enough (as in really original, not just rehashed someone else's stuff or poorly written junk that confuses arrangement with songwriting), then get paid for it.

John






*​There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

 

[BillyIVbass]

Thanks again. I've made up my mind: screw this gig! I asked for material and got "look us up on Myspace" haha

 

[Eminor3rd]

Demand what you want, but don't complain if people don't want to pay you. You're not a rock star. Some of us just like to play because we love music.

 

[m0nst3r]

In no way are you being a jerk.
I'll book my band maybe 2 or 3 free shows a year.

I liked this article on specific vs. general exposure: "when to take an upaid gig as a musician"
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Good article.

 

[Thunderscreech]

If you're good at something, never do it for free

and if you do it for free once, people will expect it for free all the time.

 

[plankspanker13]

I dont leave the house for anything less than a bill.

Ditto. If that means that I don't get to play as much as I did last season, then so be it. I have a hunch that there will be enough gigs for me when the weather cools down again; part of the territory of being known for being above-average good (as an ensemble player, not as Jaco) and bringing it.

 

[Rocky]

Demand what you want, but don't complain if people don't want to pay you. You're not a rock star. Some of us just like to play because we love music.

1) If your a good musician the people that get paying gigs will be happy to pay you.

2) those that won't pay you either are too cheap and want to keep the money themselves or they suck and their gigs suck. Those gigs are not worth playing anyway.

3) Most of the people that try to pull this type of scam do so because people who just "play because we love music" provide a pool of free services to be used by said scumbags.

We all love to play or we would not be musicians, but that doesn't mean you have to do it for free unless of course you suck and are not worth hiring. If you are any good realize your screwing it up for those trying to make a living.

 

[Brad Johnson]

1) If your a good musician the people that get paying gigs will be happy to pay you.

2) those that won't pay you either are too cheap and want to keep the money themselves or they suck and their gigs suck. Those gigs are not worth playing anyway.

3) Most of the people that try to pull this type of scam do so because people who just "play because we love music" provide a pool of free services to be used by said scumbags.

We all love to play or we would not be musicians, but that doesn't mean you have to do it for free unless of course you suck and are not worth hiring. If you are any good realize your screwing it up for those trying to make a living.

Sounds about right. And it's cool that some people don't mind playing for free... but know that in many cases, while you may not feel like a chump, that's exactly how the people who are using you look at you.


I just had a guy pull this crap on me (treating me like a chump)... a $200/man gig, I find out he's paid everyone but me and has been ducking me for weeks. We'll eventually cross paths.