Am I diva for not wanting to play for free?

[Brad Johnson]

That is a true statement. The fact that performing music can be strictly a joyous hobby or a money makin job is exactly the reason for some of the polar opposite opinions in this thread.

Cats who expect to get paid want the free-playin cats to stop playin for free. Well, that just ain't gonna happen. There will always be cats who dig playin so much that they could care less whether they get paid or not. The money-seekin cats will just have to continue to deal with it and try to "out do" the free-playin cats by playin better and bringin larger audiences to the venues.

I for one could care less whether I get paid cuz I play for the sheer joy of playin! That's how I have done it for the past 38 years of playin bass, and that's how I intend to keep on doin it!

Cool. I can honestly say you're the first person I've come across who didn't care if they ever got paid.


I didn't always play because I needed the money, far from it for most ofmy adult life. But there was something intriniscally wrong with people considering what I was doing was worthless. Because that's typically at the core of why people don't get paid.

It talkes all kinds. I'm not complaining about people playing for free... knock yourselves out. Nobody would or likely could do the gigs I typically do for free... you're practically guaranteed to feel like a chump seeing everyone else around you being nicely compensated becauase someone appreciates what they do. So by all means play for free.

But I do see where it has an obvious affect on wages across the board in an area. Not really sure why most of the freebies in this thread don't seem to get that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You sir, are an expensive date.

Not really... that's the minimum around here unless there are really special circumstances.

 

[mr_goodbomb]

Nah man. I don't get paid to play in either of the bands I'm in, it all goes into the band
account. However, that said, that account pays for everyone's gas to get back and forth (when we all travel together in one vehicle), and occasionally fast food after we play. It also pays for merch expenses, recording, promotion, etc.

All that said, we also don't play for free anymore, or like to. Venues are making money off us, we are their entertainment and we're what keep people there aside from the alcohol and the vague, naive, and silly notion that the patrons might hook up that night. Those people pay at the door and buy drinks all night. We deserve paid just like the venue.

 

[Rocky]

If my playing for free drives down the price of music on the street, then so be it.

I see. Who cares if someone is screwing everyone else as long as they get theirs right?

 

[SactoBass]

Cool. I can honestly say you're the first person I've come across who didn't care if they ever got paid.


I didn't always play because I needed the money, far from it for most ofmy adult life. But there was something intriniscally wrong with people considering what I was doing was worthless. Because that's typically at the core of why people don't get paid.

It talkes all kinds. I'm not complaining about people playing for free... knock yourselves out. Nobody would or likely could do the gigs I typically do for free... you're practically guaranteed to feel like a chump seeing everyone else around you being nicely compensated becauase someone appreciates what they do. So by all means play for free.

But I do see where it has an obvious affect on wages across the board in an area. Not really sure why most of the freebies in this thread don't seem to get that.

Good post Brad. Don't get me wrong....if someone insists they pay me, I'm not gonna refuse a few greenbacks. All I'm sayin is, money is not a motivating factor for me personally. But I fully respect others who feel otherwise.

 

[ggunn]

That is why they pay musicians with beers in Austin. I contemplated moving to Austin once because I love Texas blues, and most of my heros are from the area, but I know that what you are saying is true, and I'm not trying to get a record deal at this point in life. the music I like to play doesn't pay much so I stayed here in L.A. playing music i'm not crazy about, but I'm playing music and getting paid so its a trade off.

What is why they pay musicians with beers in Austin? The reason is that there are far more musicians than there are gigs here, and more are pouring in every day. It's not that we want to play for free, it's because playing for free or nearly so is the only way you get heard if you aren't a name draw.

Sure, you can say that if we all agreed to suddenly stop playing for free the club owners would have to pay, but it's just as easy to say that if all the rich people in this country would be content with being a little less rich, the economy wouldn't have a problem. If a frog had wings... Call me selfish again if you must, but I'm not going to cut my own throat for the greater good.

 

[David Jayne]

YEP! I'm perfectly OK with that. Always have been, always will be. As long as I am having fun doing it! For me, that's why I play.....because I dig it!

Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living?

 

[mcapote]

hell if my friend asks me to sit in he atleast covers my bar tab.

 

[David Jayne]

Sorry, I'm not going to do that. Not going to happen. I am going to play (or not play) for my own reasons. They may or may not involve compensation. If my playing for free drives down the price of music on the street, then so be it.

And you too- what's your job?

 

[Rocky]

What is why they pay musicians with beers in Austin? The reason is that there are far more musicians than there are gigs here, and more are pouring in every day. It's not that we want to play for free, it's because playing for free or nearly so is the only way you get heard if you aren't a name draw.

Sure, you can say that if we all agreed to suddenly stop playing for free the club owners would have to pay, but it's just as easy to say that if all the rich people in this country would be content with being a little less rich, the economy wouldn't have a problem. If a frog had wings... Call me selfish again if you must, but I'm not going to cut my own throat for the greater good.

Because there are so many musicians in Austin that will play for free clubs can get away with not paying you. That is what I meant. Are you playing original music in a showcase type of gig? If you are then I understand what you are saying, and by all means you should do whatever you feel that will get you the exposure you think will advance your band. I have been there, and I have done that too. My position referrers more to bands that play four sets a night doing cover tunes in a bar or fills in for another bassist. I personally don't believe that anyone should play in that situation for free, but there are plenty that will do that too. I have stated my position on this issue time and time again. We can agree to disagree, and leave it at that. I will never play for free unless it is a benefit that I believe in. I have been signed twice in my life with all kinds of promises offered. I have played in numerous bar bands doing four sets a night to make a living. Am I jaded? absolutely! I still love music, and I love to play, but my days of driving to gigs and playing all night for free are long gone. I would rather stay home than to be used by cheap club owners. The irony of all this is that as soon as I stopped playing for free, and demanded what I felt to be adequate pay for playing gigs, the less I got asked to play for free, and the more paying gigs I get. However, I do realize that playing gigs for free has affected the business, and that is all I was really trying to point out.

 

[dcr]

This......

I would play for free at a benefit for a charity that I support and believe in, but I would certainly not play for free at a regular club gig or similar, and definitely not as a fill-in.

and this.....

If the bartender is serving for free, the waiters and waitresses (if any) are working for free, the doorman is doing it for love, and the club owner is making nothing, then by all means do three rehearsals for nothing and play the gig for free.

pretty much spells it out for me!



dcr

 

[SteveC]

I see. Who cares if someone is screwing everyone else as long as they get theirs right?

God bless America, right. Everyone looking out for themselves and no one else. Very sad.

 

[Tampabass]

There are far more musicians than gigs in Every large or medium-sized city in the U.S., and many smaller cities, too. It'd be interesting to find out how it came to be that so many musicians play for free or for beer or "exposure" in Austin.

And here, as a two-time visitor to Austin - both SXSW - I always thought that Austin would be a great place to live as a musician - I mean, a place you could go, theoretically, and do fairly well playing music.

Again, whether in Austin or LA or whatever, and whether you're doing it for love or $$ or some of both, for me it all goes back to this:

Why do some musicians place so little value on what they have to offer that they'll play for free at a for-profit business place where everyone else is making money? Is it a case of low artistic self-esteem?

And whether you want to admit or not, by playing for free in THOSE situations you ARE effectively driving down what musicians can make in your local community.

Whether you care or not is another issue.

What is why they pay musicians with beers in Austin? The reason is that there are far more musicians than there are gigs here, and more are pouring in every day. It's not that we want to play for free, it's because playing for free or nearly so is the only way you get heard if you aren't a name draw.

Sure, you can say that if we all agreed to suddenly stop playing for free the club owners would have to pay, but it's just as easy to say that if all the rich people in this country would be content with being a little less rich, the economy wouldn't have a problem. If a frog had wings... Call me selfish again if you must, but I'm not going to cut my own throat for the greater good.

 

[Rocky]

I think one of the problems is that there seems to be this misconception that musicians should "play" for free because the non playing public see them having a great time playing an instrument, getting free drinks, meeting members of the opposite sex (or same sex if that's your thing). they don't see the hours and hours of practice, the cost of buying quality instruments to do the job, loading and unloading the gear at 1 am, going to the day gig the next day exhausted, being promised a certain amount of the bar take only to be told "they were drinking soda pop", and all the other fun spinal tap moments that come with the territory. They think its all fun and games, and why should we make money for "playing"?

Then there are the band leaders that want you to drive 100 miles round trip or more, play till 1 am, deal with the issues that come with the gig that they are well aware of, and do it for fifty bucks while they make 200 because they are the ones that booked the gig. God I love those guys!

To everyone that plays in a bar band for free or that sub for another bassist for free I still maintain you are hurting the business for other musicians. Can I convince you of that fact probably not, but I hope you will take an objective view and think about it. Next time someone asks you to do a gig for free tell them very nicely that you would love too, but you have expenses that will not allow it. Then when they ask you what you want confidently tell them your price, and I'll bet you will get it as long as its not outrageous. Will you lose gigs? You might, but eventually the calls you do get will be for paying gigs I promise.

You could also tell them "sure I'll play it for free, but I have to charge you to get my gear to and from the club, and that's a hundred bucks"

 

[Tampabass]

+1.
and p.s. Free gigs usually lead to ... MORE free gigs.

I think one of the problems is that there seems to be this misconception that musicians should "play" for free because the non playing public see them having a great time playing an instrument, getting free drinks, meeting members of the opposite sex (or same sex if that's your thing). they don't see the hours and hours of practice, the cost of buying quality instruments to do the job, loading and unloading the gear at 1 am, going to the day gig the next day exhausted, being promised a certain amount of the bar take only to be told "they were drinking soda pop", and all the other fun spinal tap moments that come with the territory. They think its all fun and games, and why should we make money for "playing"?

Then there are the band leaders that want you to drive 100 miles round trip or more, play till 1 am, deal with the issues that come with the gig that they are well aware of, and do it for fifty bucks while they make 200 because they are the ones that booked the gig. God I love those guys!

To everyone that plays in a bar band for free or that sub for another bassist for free I still maintain you are hurting the business for other musicians. Can I convince you of that fact probably not, but I hope you will take an objective view and think about it. Next time someone asks you to do a gig for free tell them very nicely that you would love too, but you have expenses that will not allow it. Then when they ask you what you want confidently tell them your price, and I'll bet you will get it as long as its not outrageous. Will you lose gigs? You might, but eventually the calls you do get will be for paying gigs I promise.

 

[Rocky]

+1.
and p.s. Free gigs usually lead to ... MORE free gigs.

That's so true. If you are a good player that plays for free your phone will ring off the hook!

 

[Bongolation]

Never played for free in my life.

Never will. It's a matter of principle.

 

[Brad Johnson]

hell if my friend asks me to sit in he atleast covers my bar tab.

That's respect.

 

[mgauge]

diva

 

[Brad Johnson]

+1.
and p.s. Free gigs usually lead to ... MORE free gigs.

I have a friend who complains about how many "promotional gigs" he does. I figured that scam out back in high school.


The last reduced rate gig I did was as a house band (trio) for an open mic that our drummer was trying to help a promoter get off the ground. We did it a couple of weeks then were told the gig was cancelled. Turns out it wasn't cancelled, the promoter had tried to bring in a band the floolowing week that was cheaper than what we were eventually supposed to make. Fortunately he got what he paid for and the venture died.

The lack of integrity alone keeps me for putting myself out there like that anymore. "I" value my time... otherwise why would anyone else?