Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[steubig]

I may consider a EHX Freeze for a true drone hold. Maybe run it into Thicken for some modulation, or build a ZOIA patch for subtle modulation on the drone.

totally makes sense

 

[dukeorock]

I peeked at your thread and I’ll think on it.

For Eno try On Land and Reflection. I’m really impressed with those. I don’t know his collection at all, so I’d love to hear other suggestions too.

Been a huge Eno fan since I was a young kid. His work on Bowie’s ‘Low’ and ‘Heroes’ records are pretty great. His first few ‘rock’ records after leaving Roxy Music are worth looking into. ‘Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy)’ and ‘Another Green World’ are two favorites. His collaborations with Robert Fripp...thinking maybe ‘No Pussyfooting’ and ‘Before and After Science’ if my memory is holding up. Lots of great stuff in his catalog

 

[J_Bass]

i second the ios thing

ipad is an excellent platform for for synth stuff, imho.

android has issues with latency from what i’ve heard. it also has far fewer available apps, from what i know.

synthtopia and dischord are great online resources for information about ios and other computer-based synth/sampler software.

there’s lots of great stuff out there, butnit sort or depends on what you want to do and what feels natural (for instance, max/msp doesn’t feel natural to me, but abelton really does).

Thank you!

 

[J_Bass]

Get the Arturia Buchla Music Easel.

Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[dukeorock]

For Mac soft synths...I don’t really keep up with that much, but Logic Pro X comes stock with several really nice synths. I got the Waves Flow Motion synth on a sale and like it a whole lot. I do have several good iOS synths on my iPad, though I rarely use my ipad. Been more into the hardware thing, but iOS is where it’s at if bang for buck is super important. Waldorf Nave is really nice. The Moog stuff, Patterning2 is killer, SAMPLR, Tardigrain. So many great sound sources for tiny amounts of dough

 

[J_Bass]

For Mac soft synths...I don’t really keep up with that much, but Logic Pro X comes stock with several really nice synths. I got the Waves Flow Motion synth on a sale and like it a whole lot. I do have several good iOS synths on my iPad, though I rarely use my ipad. Been more into the hardware thing, but iOS is where it’s at if bang for buck is super important. Waldorf Nave is really nice. The Moog stuff, Patterning2 is killer, SAMPLR, Tardigrain. So many great sound sources for tiny amounts of dough

Thank you, you guys are great!

 

[steubig]

For Mac soft synths...I don’t really keep up with that much, but Logic Pro X comes stock with several really nice synths. I got the Waves Flow Motion synth on a sale and like it a whole lot. I do have several good iOS synths on my iPad, though I rarely use my ipad. Been more into the hardware thing, but iOS is where it’s at if bang for buck is super important. Waldorf Nave is really nice. The Moog stuff, Patterning2 is killer, SAMPLR, Tardigrain. So many great sound sources for tiny amounts of dough

i went to iPad because i was doing live gigs and pointing and clicking with the mouse to do stuff was problematic when also trying to play bass at the same time.

since you *touch* the iPad, it's *way* quicker.

the other benefit of using a touch surface is being able to program gestures to control timbre changes, etc., if the app supports that. nave does that, tc 11, most of the ppg stuff, etc. in addition, apps like samplr (one of the best ever, imho) allow to *play a sampled waveform* with your fingers, which is as fun as it sounds.

there are some seriously deep (and way more intuitive than the old menu and windows synths i first learned on) apps available. i'm still using an iPad 2 for this stuff (yeah, i gotta pony up for some newer models) and it's still ridiculously cool. iPad also allows you to have numerous synths with no hardware and is super portable (bored on a flight? program away) . . .

i mostly do all-improv stuff, so the gestural aspect is *gold* for me.

yeah, i'm a fanboy.

 

[cosmicevan]

Man. I worked looping ideas last night with my Pigtronix Infinity. It’s harder than I expected. I’m realizing how tricky it can be to loop drones and long release-tail sounds without getting an obvious breakpoint. I’m working on running my Medusa into the input of the Infinity. What I want is to run it into input 1 and then generate outputs 1 and 2 independently, but it won’t do that from a mono source. My next idea was to get an ABY box, but my Transmutron should do what I want. I was hoping to use it later in my signal path, but I might just split it up before the loop.

not that i'm an expert on this, but i've been doing some sort of looping since the mid-80s (used roland sde-3000s, digitech rds-8000s and pds 8000s, ehx 16-second delay, akai head rush, lines 6 dl-4, boomerang 3). my experience tells me that it's almost impossible to get something that doesn't have an obvious breakpoint of some sort—especially if there is any movement in pitch or modulation. being able to "paper over" it is a key.

one reason i like the boomerang 3 is that you can have three (four with the extra pedal) *asynchronous* loops at the same time . . . you can hide the breakpoints with varying levels of success. also has the benefit of adding a feeling of motion to something that can become static sounding.

Another non-expert but long-time looper (anyone remember loopers delight? I still wear my t-shirt)...
I was using an Electrix Repeater for YEARS, until deciding that it was too bulky and I didn't need ALL that functionality some point last year. I switched to a Ditto X4 and then discovered Janek Gwizdala and have since switched to a 2 looper setup (2 ditto X2's - ditto works also, but the X2 has the dedicated stop/delete button) ripping off his concept of having one to dump the main loop into and then blank out the looper earlier in the chain. Janek puts a lot of ambience in the background of his loops and when layering in something with a tail, he will engage the loop to record while the tail is playing after striking a note to ring out without recording. This is a great technique to smooth out the seems because your seem will fall during the tail and not on the note strike meaning there will be no abrupt cutoff of the tail of your note. It works REALLY well to eliminate the seem.

I've taken the 2 looper setup and popped a flip flop pedal in between. This allows tremendous flexibility for building because I record something, say a beat in looper 1...then I groove over that beat recording my live playing along with looper 1 into looper 2. This way my timing doesn't have to be machine perfect, it can be human perfect. From there, I blank out looper 1 because now my groove and the beat are captured in looper 2. I then flip flop the position of the loopers and now looper 1 is at the end of the chain and it is blanked out. I kick looper 1 into record and play live along with looper 2 that now holds the beat and groove. I keep doing this building and chopping down of my loops adding more and more. Additionally, I can have the looper latest in the chain playing my loop and then record something underneath on the looper earlier in the chain and bend down and do a cross fade with the volume knobs on the pedals to totally change the vibe. I tend to like to build my loop and then when I want to change I'll just get it to be a noisy chaos which gives me the sonic room to build under it without being heard...the cross fade is cool at that point because you don't hear that there is another idea being built behind the cacophony. It's great fun, and to me the way to really move music along when using loopers. I get bored when I hear the same loop for more than a few moments.

 

[steubig]

loopers delight. yes.

i like taking one loop and processing/mangling it and them looping that. you can also get interesting collage sort of things by messing with reverse and octave transpositions on the fly while you’re recording the second loop.

 

[monsterthompson]

I still need to try my Empress Echo and Reverb boxes in their looper modes...

 

[Spectrum]

Hi guys.

What is that??

I have been following this thread for some time, I would like to understand more about this style of music.

It's a type of animal called a "subtractive" analog synthesizer. Bob Moog pioneered the idea in the 60s and 70s with the giant expensive Moog modular that guys like Keith Emerson used, and later the self-contained Mini Moog used by guys like Rick Wakeman. I think Geddy Lee used one of those in the late 70s also.

Analog meaning the signal path has no digital parts. Modern analog synths often have digital stuff in the control and interface circuits to allow them to be easier to use and connect with other gear, but the part that makes and modifies the sound is old school analog.

Subtractive means the sound starts with a voltage-controlled oscillator (VCO), and then parts of the pure signal are "subtracted" as it passes through the signal path, which includes the VCA, filters, etc.

"Modular" means all these components are separate and "patched" together with cables (see Emerson's rig), while the one in that video is a self-contained unit which has a patch panel to connect it with other synths, the patch panel makes it "semi-modular".

It looks very complicated when you start with all those knobs and switches, but it's not, really; plus most analog synths are similar in concept and operation, and once you get used to one the others are considerably easier to figure out.

Where should I start? What do you recommend I listen to get me started on this?

I started with Tangerine Dream's mid-70s stuff. Two albums in particular: Pheadra and Rubycon. The style of these albums is known as "The Berlin School" of electronic music and is hugely influential today even to people who never heard of it.

Thanks guys!

Anything for Apple laptop? My phone is android.

Before I bought a hardware synth, I downloaded a free app to my Android called "Caustic". It's a great "softsynth" app that simulates a raft of instruments and lets you construct entire tracks. One of the instruments it simulates is a modular analog synth; playing with that taught me much about how an analog synth works.

Then I shopped around and bought an Arturia Microbrute, and have used hardware ever since.

I may consider a EHX Freeze for a true drone hold. Maybe run it into Thicken for some modulation, or build a ZOIA patch for subtle modulation on the drone.

I use an EHX Superego, which is like a Freeze on steroids. They have since released a deluxe version of the Superego for those of us with an even higher money to sense ratio.

I also often record a drone into a Ditto X2 looper and use that throughout the set.

 

[J_Bass]

It's a type of animal called a "subtractive" analog synthesizer. Bob Moog pioneered the idea in the 60s and 70s with the giant expensive Moog modular that guys like Keith Emerson used, and later the self-contained Mini Moog used by guys like Rick Wakeman. I think Geddy Lee used one of those in the late 70s also.

Analog meaning the signal path has no digital parts. Modern analog synths often have digital stuff in the control and interface circuits to allow them to be easier to use and connect with other gear, but the part that makes and modifies the sound is old school analog.

Subtractive means the sound starts with a voltage-controlled oscillator (VCO), and then parts of the pure signal are "subtracted" as it passes through the signal path, which includes the VCA, filters, etc.

"Modular" means all these components are separate and "patched" together with cables (see Emerson's rig), while the one in that video is a self-contained unit which has a patch panel to connect it with other synths, the patch panel makes it "semi-modular".

It looks very complicated when you start with all those knobs and switches, but it's not, really; plus most analog synths are similar in concept and operation, and once you get used to one the others are considerably easier to figure out.



I started with Tangerine Dream's mid-70s stuff. Two albums in particular: Pheadra and Rubycon. The style of these albums is known as "The Berlin School" of electronic music and is hugely influential today even to people who never heard of it.







Before I bought a hardware synth, I downloaded a free app to my Android called "Caustic". It's a great "softsynth" app that simulates a raft of instruments and lets you construct entire tracks. One of the instruments it simulates is a modular analog synth; playing with that taught me much about how an analog synth works.

Then I shopped around and bought an Arturia Microbrute, and have used hardware ever since.



I use an EHX Superego, which is like a Freeze on steroids. They have since released a deluxe version of the Superego for those of us with an even higher money to sense ratio.

I also often record a drone into a Ditto X2 looper and use that throughout the set.

Thanks for the explanations.

I've got to listen to all the videos you guys put!

 

[steubig]

those of us with an even higher money to sense ratio.

guilty!

 

[theunknowndude]

Responded in the other thread but yeah I went midi keyboard and soft synth for the cheaper route... I also started with waves flow motion! Also got air hybrid3 and xpandit! From plug-in boutique... just those 3 I still haven’t explored every preset or what they can do.
My latest thing was trying to program drums with a bass synth behind it, came out ok but lots more learning to do!

 

[theunknowndude]

I know there’s lots of versatile daw’s out there too by me and my band tend to Stick with reaper... pretty good for 60 dollars if you want to program or record things... maybe not as good if you using software live though.

 

[dukeorock]

I know there’s lots of versatile daw’s out there too by me and my band tend to Stick with reaper... pretty good for 60 dollars if you want to program or record things... maybe not as good if you using software live though.

Yeah, I’d think Ableton, Bitwig and Logic are still the forerunners for that sort of thing

 

[monsterthompson]

Man. Working on a few things tonight has me thinking about flipping my Empress Echo for another Zoia. I need to go through a few more things, but I think I can do most of what I want with the Zoia (I can probably do more than I know I can). I played around with a looper at 8 seconds feeding a ping pong delay with one output to a vibrato and the other to a phaser. It was a bit busy sounding and the looper trigger was a little tricky using the soft keys on the Zoia, but that can be routed to a stomp button or expression pedal or midi control.

 

[dukeorock]

Did someone mention loopers?

 

[HotelX]

Did someone mention loopers?

Goodness. That looks amazing too.

 

[HotelX]

Man. Working on a few things tonight has me thinking about flipping my Empress Echo for another Zoia. I need to go through a few more things, but I think I can do most of what I want with the Zoia (I can probably do more than I know I can). I played around with a looper at 8 seconds feeding a ping pong delay with one output to a vibrato and the other to a phaser. It was a bit busy sounding and the looper trigger was a little tricky using the soft keys on the Zoia, but that can be routed to a stomp button or expression pedal or midi control.

Demo Zoia at Prymaxe