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Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread
- Thread starter ttasselm
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A few thoughts on scenes and the dominance of modular.
As far as I can tell, modular is still quite niche compared with keyboard synths like Moog, Arturia, Roland, and other instruments like Elektron devices, M8s, Teenage Engineering etc. If for no other reason than if you turn on a digital keyboard, hit a key, you’ll probably get a sound. Modular looks like a **** 1950s computer in contrast. So I think there is way more of that stuff in the world. Which means there should be more players. The trick is finding them.
I think of keyboard synths and Elektron machines as more “players’ instruments” whereas a lot of modular players “sculpt” more than they play. Lots of exceptions but to me there’s a difference. Some Eurorack is literally too small to perform (or you need an external controller).
Small music scenes are often musicians playing for / with other musicians. That’s ok by me if it’s good otherwise. Especially in a smaller place.
Montreal has a few kinds of events that are synth related. It seems there’s a range— some are modular only or modular heavy. Others are full of Elektron boxes. There is a noise scene, and then of course all the academic stuff. And of course there are bands with synths that gig.
The friendliness and vibe is largely determined by the organizers and/pr regulars (see also: this thread, @ugly_bassplayer ’s bad experiences in the QC scene). So that’s a bit of a crapshoot. You get lucky or you don’t.
@lordradish Burlington is big enough that you should be able to find people into your kind of music and who welcome your kinds of synths, though those might not be the same types of people with the same interests.
Finding people to play with in the sense of collaborate seems to me exactly like looking for bandmates any other way. Could take awhile, lots of people won’t work out, etc. I spent about 7-8 months actively looking before I fell into my current instrumental band. Lots of non starters, and that was in a city. So if you really want collaborators, you have to get out there and not give up.
You need to be the right kind of person to even want to do this, but I feel like people can make their own scenes (see friendliness and vibe point above) but that’s a whole bunch of work that’s about people and events, not just the music. A friend co-founded Modular on the Spot and later the Beirut Synthesizer Center and bth are so cool, but it is clearly a ton of work.
As far as I can tell, modular is still quite niche compared with keyboard synths like Moog, Arturia, Roland, and other instruments like Elektron devices, M8s, Teenage Engineering etc. If for no other reason than if you turn on a digital keyboard, hit a key, you’ll probably get a sound. Modular looks like a **** 1950s computer in contrast. So I think there is way more of that stuff in the world. Which means there should be more players. The trick is finding them.
I think of keyboard synths and Elektron machines as more “players’ instruments” whereas a lot of modular players “sculpt” more than they play. Lots of exceptions but to me there’s a difference. Some Eurorack is literally too small to perform (or you need an external controller).
Small music scenes are often musicians playing for / with other musicians. That’s ok by me if it’s good otherwise. Especially in a smaller place.
Montreal has a few kinds of events that are synth related. It seems there’s a range— some are modular only or modular heavy. Others are full of Elektron boxes. There is a noise scene, and then of course all the academic stuff. And of course there are bands with synths that gig.
The friendliness and vibe is largely determined by the organizers and/pr regulars (see also: this thread, @ugly_bassplayer ’s bad experiences in the QC scene). So that’s a bit of a crapshoot. You get lucky or you don’t.
@lordradish Burlington is big enough that you should be able to find people into your kind of music and who welcome your kinds of synths, though those might not be the same types of people with the same interests.
Finding people to play with in the sense of collaborate seems to me exactly like looking for bandmates any other way. Could take awhile, lots of people won’t work out, etc. I spent about 7-8 months actively looking before I fell into my current instrumental band. Lots of non starters, and that was in a city. So if you really want collaborators, you have to get out there and not give up.
You need to be the right kind of person to even want to do this, but I feel like people can make their own scenes (see friendliness and vibe point above) but that’s a whole bunch of work that’s about people and events, not just the music. A friend co-founded Modular on the Spot and later the Beirut Synthesizer Center and bth are so cool, but it is clearly a ton of work.
Modular for me has been more about education and understanding than performance. I first tried playing software synths, but the concepts didn’t take hold until modular deconstructed or decoupled the various elements so I could hear what the filter was doing apart from the delay apart from the envelope controlling the VCA. I suppose meeting up with others would’ve been helpful for accelerating my processing of it all, but I have no real desire to lug gear. Though, in time I might be able to distill certain elements of what I want to do to a point where I could design/build a portable skiff for working with others.
I’ve been working with soft modular synths in Reaktor Bocks again and I might create something that would be the basis for having a “live” rig.
I’ve been working with soft modular synths in Reaktor Bocks again and I might create something that would be the basis for having a “live” rig.
Yeah, it’s been way more educational and exploratory for me than any fixed architecture synth I’ve used.
Yes. In fact, I am doing that right now.
Thanks for all of this.
"modular is still quite niche compared with keyboard synths"
It sure does not feel like it. Maybe most of us don't go out or something.
"I think of keyboard synths and Elektron machines as more “players’ instruments” whereas a lot of modular players “sculpt” more than they play. Lots of exceptions but to me there’s a difference. Some Eurorack is literally too small to perform (or you need an external controller)."
Funny that you mention this. At the synth meetup, the guy that went on after me, really nice and talented guy who plays as "Acacia Bridge" said to my former duo partner (who was also playing, right before my set), "Wow, I didn't think there was gonna be musical synth stuff, too. Wow! (or something along those lines)", referring to his and my sets. His went back and forth between some ambient and some dope grooves, and mine was drone then downtempo. So of course, we had chords, basslines, melodys/themes, etc.
Now, I'm going out on a limb here, because my brain generally hurts whenever I mess around with modular...maybe I don't have the spatial intelligence, and more likely, the patience, but I wonder if it's finding such growing appeal because it doesn't really require any knowledge of music in some instances and one can still do things they find very satisfying about it, in a reaaaaally deep kind of way, too. It seems about more than half the mod people I've chatted with in the Burlington discord don't seem to play any other instruments, or play any kind of keyboard. I think modular is kind of unique in terms of the puzzle-like combinations and possibilities, and that can have appeal to someone who may not be interested in 'music' as we conventionally see it but look at it from a completely different way that my brain apparently doesn't do.
Does any of that make sense?
@JES To continue my response (wanted to break it up), I'm still trying to figure out if I even want to play synths out live. I really enjoy the composing/recording approach I take for hours up late in my studio most nights. I like not having to perform...
Another thing that makes me reluctant is when I first realized how much I liked synths and big pedalboards, I found it really liberating because up until that point, most of my experience (I've been playing bass for 39 years now) has been just being a bassist in bands, mostly in ones where I didn't write the music, and in a lot of cases, bands that wanted to gig and had to have some sort of appeal. In my case, it was often funk, so there's always that pressure to get people up and dancing. It was nice to not feel any pressure to conform to anything when I play synths, and I worry if I go out, I'd get that again. I think if I wanted to gig, I'd probably have to do a lot more accessible/beat stuff like I did in that second video. I enjoy doing it, but it also feels a bit forced, as I kind of have another trajectory for my recording/comp evolution that may eventually wind up there, but I have several other things I want to dabble in first.
I'm excited about the prospects, but another part of me is very apprehensive.
Another thing that makes me reluctant is when I first realized how much I liked synths and big pedalboards, I found it really liberating because up until that point, most of my experience (I've been playing bass for 39 years now) has been just being a bassist in bands, mostly in ones where I didn't write the music, and in a lot of cases, bands that wanted to gig and had to have some sort of appeal. In my case, it was often funk, so there's always that pressure to get people up and dancing. It was nice to not feel any pressure to conform to anything when I play synths, and I worry if I go out, I'd get that again. I think if I wanted to gig, I'd probably have to do a lot more accessible/beat stuff like I did in that second video. I enjoy doing it, but it also feels a bit forced, as I kind of have another trajectory for my recording/comp evolution that may eventually wind up there, but I have several other things I want to dabble in first.
I'm excited about the prospects, but another part of me is very apprehensive.
Oh, by the way, I think some of you will like this, two of the other acts from that thing I played. I enjoyed watching these guys perform, I haven't really seen too much of this kind of stuff live, outside of Moogfest. The first guy is a professor in the synth dept. at Berklee School of Music, we had some great conversations.
Yeah, I think this is a type (probably with several subtypes). I know some people say they have no intention of making music, just sounds. Some folks really just like building and tinkering and refer to modulars as their version of model trains.
There are also some folks with a bit more of a composition or music theory background, not interested in performing and maybe not recording either, who enjoy setting up self-playing generative patches, with minimal human interaction.
You don't find this on, say, a plugin forum. Almost everyone there is a wannabe producer.
Some of them with a range of musical skills/backgrounds (or at least dabbling).I think the different approaches and motivations people have is the reason why there's such a divide in what people recommend for gear. Sometimes when I look at other peoples' modular rigs it makes me itch. And in return, I drive them crazy by having exactly one dual VCA and four flagship digital VCOs and (gasp!) a DAW.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. In a funk band, the expressed purpose is to get people dancing. In a solo synth act, the purpose is to....play synth music. EDM is to my mind a different set of venues and audiences than more abstract stuff (melodic or not, rhythmic or not). So it really depends on whether you're aiming to simply perform the music you love making, or build the biggest possible audience. There are always going to be bigger audiences for dance music than for bleeps and bloops. So to me it seems like as long as you're clear in your head why you're doing it, and stick with that. Or, you change your mind and say "I'd rather play stuff with beats to bigger audiences" and that's cool too. But make it your choice rather than feeling any pressure. That's one of the joys of middle age
One other thing I've noticed: the small coterie of "successful" modular synth artists in terms of reaching larger audiences are mostly people who incorporate melody and rhythm. Often they were successful musicians before they got into modular but not always. I'm thinking of Caterina Barbieri, or Alessandro Cortini, or Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith. I saw Cortini in the same concert hall where I saw Prince's solo piano tour. Granted it's Montreal but that's something. They're exceptions, like Thomas Ankersmit, but he seems more like the exception. And honestly I'm not sure how big of an audience he has.
I agree with @Starthief about the range of purpose too. You see this on other gear forums too where people don't even ask about musical intentions. Even here with the whole "P bass with flats always works" line (=more VCAs?), which is obviously not true if you're making certain kinds of music. And the model trains metaphor is literally how I explained it to a friend not long ago. Format = scale. HO, which was smaller than the larger and easier to use than the larger O scale, helped the hobby take off. (My brother was big into it in the 70s and early 80s and we had a setup in the basement.)
The model train analogy is spot on. Surprised I never thought of it before, but I was big into model trains with my dad years ago (N-scale in my case), so I get the feeling.
I haven't gotten into modular and am avoiding it because I know how I am with any hobby when it comes to going overboard. I'm bad enough with the music gear I already have for cryin' out loud.
I also own too many cameras, too many radios, etc.
I haven't gotten into modular and am avoiding it because I know how I am with any hobby when it comes to going overboard. I'm bad enough with the music gear I already have for cryin' out loud.
I also own too many cameras, too many radios, etc.
How was I unaware of Dungeon Synth as a genre?!
Yep some of it is a lot closer to black metal though.
That one sounds « video game » with mid evil themes.
Add to that about a thousand sub genres of the CVLT « metal » keyboard police of music tags
i just started turning this rock over, so i hope to find something i like. so far i generally like what i've heard.
Just be aware that the Lo Fi sound like $h!t intentionally aspect of some black metal is VERY omnipresent in this particular genre.
And yes before you ask, I absolutely love some bands that sound like filth.
Not really into the dungeon synth thing though.
Once I found out that Klingon Battle Metal is a genre I stopped being surprised at any new genre names.
