Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[emjazz]

I've seen Bill Frisell play live. I've watched maaaany videos of his playing. He's a huge influence of mine. He's incredibly self effacing. Humble isn't even the word for it. I've heard stories of Ben Monder (another huge influence) melting down if he missed a single note of his piece (he doesn't seem to do this any longer). That piece of us is what helps us grow, as long as we don't let it stop ourselves from growing. It can quickly turn on us if we let it.

 

[patshep]

Nice and chill. Makes me want to sit poolside with a glass of something cheery in my hand and watch the sun set.

thanks for listening, i like to call my stuff "jambient" it's not quite minimal enough to be ambient lol

 

[steubig]

I'm absolutely right there with you! It's a documentation of process! Great timing as I'm listening to possible tracks for my next record...listening back to a piece that I'm not sure about. For me my emotional response to the piece comes first. Of that isn't 100% there then I ask myself if it still has something to say. If there story isn't in there than it doesn't make the cut....but that means I simply keep working until something better comes along...

there's a bunch in here for me to mull over.

100% . . . not sure i ever get there?

the narrative aspect is a big one for me as well. "flow" . . .

emotional . . . that's a tougher one for me to crack. i guess i'm just trying to do something that interests and has a cool vibe?

i probably have a different process? at some points i'm very task-oriented: i conceive what i want to do, the components that it entails and then set out to do it. usually things change on the way, but i'll often have a framework that i start with and then fill in. (e.g. "okay, i like this idea, lemme work on it, okay i like the direction, i'm gonna do seven small pieces like this, i need to have contrasts, blah, blah, blah").

and as long as we do the work, it will.

this, to me, is the distillation. *do the work* . . . everything else follows.

 

[patshep]

I've seen Bill Frisell play live. I've watched maaaany videos of his playing. He's a huge influence of mine. He's incredibly self effacing. Humble isn't even the word for it. I've heard stories of Ben Monder (another huge influence) melting down if he missed a single note of his piece (he doesn't seem to do this any longer). That piece of us is what helps us grow, as long as we don't let it stop ourselves from growing. It can quickly turn on us if we let it.

I'm at the Vanguard every time Bill is in town... Thomas Morgan is also an astounding bass player btw

 

[monsterthompson]

The sampler is out and I’m mashing up terrible ideas. I really hope I can form this into something worth posting.

I say just go for it. No regrets. At least will be able to say “I DID THIS” and not sit on my @ss.

It will never be absolutely 100% perfect. I’ve learned to live with “mistakes”.

I love that vibe that you bring to this thread. It's encouraging.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

The sampler is out and I’m mashing up terrible ideas. I really hope I can form this into something worth posting.


I love that vibe that you bring to this thread. It's encouraging.

That made me smile.

My pleasure.

 

[emjazz]

I'm at the Vanguard every time Bill is in town... Thomas Morgan is also an astounding bass player btw

I saw Bill and Thomas play duo at Roulette last year. Thomas gave Bill a run for his money, and I think that is exactly why Bill loves playing with him!! It was so inspiring!!

 

[monsterthompson]

I think with me, odd as this may sound, some of my reluctance has to do with the feeling it's not good enough for myself to put out, apart from the whole fear of acceptance thing.

The fear of not doing hasn't really entered into it... I do a lot. It's still that feeling of not being good enough, or just being one of a million ambient hacks out there.

Not good enough for myself. The fear of not doing. Man. The tug of war these have in my head at times. I get motivationally pushed and pulled in so many ways by my own thoughts. It wasn't until about 12 years ago that I felt like actually writing anything to share other than riffs with band mates. It was a huge effort to show my band the lyrics and changes I had written. To my surprise they liked it enough to pop it on the album we recorded. Unfortunately, shortly after that I had a massive crippling injury. It took me a while to recover, and I'll never play as well or as easily as I did then, but I've written more and done more in the last 5 years than I did in the decades I had before I was disabled. I think my lack of mobility has made me think more about what I want to play before I play it. Having that intention and vision is productive.

The other thing I'd say is perhaps I don't feel that the documentation process/journey thing is something that needs to be shared (I don't mean other people shouldn't share it or I wouldn't enjoy it when they do). For me, that part's a bit like how, if I were cooking something, I wouldn't want people coming in and tasting it until it was done.

It definitely doesn't "need" to be shared. It also depends on the definition and motivation of/for sharing. I've shared things as a proof of concept, though they weren't things I'd share as an example of my art. Sharing examples can help further discussion and ideas.

it's also worth noting that recorded documents in the age of the internet might perform as long-distance performances that people in different parts of the world can listen and enjoy. and with live performance being off the table for the foreseeable future, it may be what you can do.

i've been thinking about the value of recorded documents in the age of the internet. in the before times, a large part of the value of a recording was the scarcity. photographs, video, audio. all of it was scarce. as recordings became easier to make, there were distribution limitations that still kept things functionally scarce. now we have an avalanche of available data. i'm curious how this will shape the humans and their desires.

I have the Bill Evans book, he always considered himself as a limited talent that put in hard work.
He practiced constantly the tunes he would play live and a lot of classical pieces.

I'm working my way through the book Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World
https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X
It has quite a bit in it that could be injected in this discussion. It talks about how creators view their work. How critics view that same work. It opens with a claim that creativity and success is simply a function of producing more work. The author cites several examples of successful artists and lists the mountains of work they produced. Often the artists had no idea where the gems were in the collection until the public told them. The auditor points out that one terrible mistake is to sit with a single idea and try to refine it to a perfection that probably doesn't exist.

I had an “AHA!!” Moment when I realized my limits as a player, instead of mopping and complaining, I pushed towards something else others where not doing. Something “ME”.....(hope this makes any sense...)

This guy gets it.

it's the wonder drug.

it really is

 

[emjazz]

I'm at the Vanguard every time Bill is in town... Thomas Morgan is also an astounding bass player btw

Also...Bill lives back in Brooklyn, so he's always in town. I was seeing an amazing trio gig at a now defunct space (they killed the long running music series there unfortunately...) and Bill and his wife walked in to hang. The air changed in the room immediately. So cool. People were so happy to see him.

 

[steubig]

so, bill frisell.

seriously one of the nicest guys you can meet. a real sweetheart. great player/musician.

i had the good fortune to room with him on a six-week tour in 1985 with julius hemphill’s j.a.h. band. unfortunately, no commercial recordings, cause the band was *incendiary*.

there is an archive of julius’s music that might have some board or audience recordings, as we sent the archivists some of those.

check out this band (they don’t have the year, so it’s not clear if it’s bill or not).

Cuid 20682-01. Julius Hemphill JAH Band. Julius Hemphill, as, ss; Nels Cline, Alan Jaffe, and/or Bill Frisell, g; Steubig, b; Alex Cline, dr.
Concert recording.
Dung 00:00–17:00
The Thing (Temporarily)(Cosmic Country Boy) 17:00–34:30
One/Waltz/Time 35:00–45:30
Cuid 20682-02.
Testament #5 00:00–14:30
Pigskin 14:30–32:30
Georgia Blue 32:40–41:00
Dogon A.D. 41:00–

 

[lordradish]

it's the wonder drug.


maybe the performance thing feels more like "community" and the recording thing feels more like "statement."

BINGO.

 

[patshep]

I saw Bill and Thomas play duo at Roulette last year. Thomas gave Bill a run for his money, and I think that is exactly why Bill loves playing with him!! It was so inspiring!!

I used to play with this amazing bass player, Pedro Girardo, I asked him if he'd heard of Thomas, he was like, "yeah we did undergrad together at Manhattan School of Music" I can't believe how much talent is in this town

 

[steubig]

Not good enough for myself. The fear of not doing. Man. The tug of war these have in my head at times. I get motivationally pushed and pulled in so many ways by my own thoughts. It wasn't until about 12 years ago that I felt like actually writing anything to share other than riffs with band mates. It was a huge effort to show my band the lyrics and changes I had written. To my surprise they liked it enough to pop it on the album we recorded. Unfortunately, shortly after that I had a massive crippling injury. It took me a while to recover, and I'll never play as well or as easily as I did then, but I've written more and done more in the last 5 years than I did in the decades I had before I was disabled. I think my lack of mobility has made me think more about what I want to play before I play it. Having that intention and vision is productive.

first off. the injury is seriously fukt. that being said, you're winning with how you're dealing with it.

focus is a great thing (even if you get it from something so horrifically life-altering).

intention and vision. yes!

It definitely doesn't "need" to be shared. It also depends on the definition and motivation of/for sharing. I've shared things as a proof of concept, though they weren't things I'd share as an example of my art. Sharing examples can help further discussion and ideas.

yep.

for me it can be a few things: sharing, proof of concept, way to bond and make connections with people of like mind, and (yes) ego fulfillment (hopefully ).

i've been thinking about the value of recorded documents in the age of the internet. in the before times, a large part of the value of a recording was the scarcity. photographs, video, audio. all of it was scarce. as recordings became easier to make, there were distribution limitations that still kept things functionally scarce. now we have an avalanche of available data. i'm curious how this will shape the humans and their desires.

i've often thought recordings are both the best and worst thing that have happened to music. on one hand we have a massive amount of information and expression that we can enjoy at a fairly cheap price (either real money or listening to commercials) and with minimal effort (don't have to travel many miles to hear a concert); on the other hand, it's these factors have made it wallpaper and merely a means to sell other stuff.

and the punk ethos said "anyone can do it" . . . well, yeah, but not everybody does it equally well. (which gets into the people we see playign live that are all that.)

but people need and want to express themselves.

i've really enjoyed some outsider art; some of it is truly inspired and some of it is just the ramblings of crazy people (or inspired ramblings of crazy people).

and, recordings can mean soundcloud, youtube, etc. i've learned about and met some seriously cool, interesting and mind-expanding people by tracking through internet audio.

I'm working my way through the book Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World
https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X
It has quite a bit in it that could be injected in this discussion. It talks about how creators view their work. How critics view that same work. It opens with a claim that creativity and success is simply a function of producing more work. The author cites several examples of successful artists and lists the mountains of work they produced. Often the artists had no idea where the gems were in the collection until the public told them. The auditor points out that one terrible mistake is to sit with a single idea and try to refine it to a perfection that probably doesn't exist.

thanks for the tip. those last two sentences have a great deal of bearing here, don't you think?

in a way, doing the massive amount of work also points to that 10,000 hours thing.

and, one of my influences (for lack of a better term) is picasso—not because i love all his output (i don't) but because he WORKED ALL THE TIME and in different media (paint, drawing, ceramics. likewise matisse, who did the cutouts while sick in bed

This guy gets it.

he does

 

[monsterthompson]

The auditor points out

The "author" not auditor. No chance my day job influence my typing or autocorrect here

 

[steubig]

p.s. if you want to read some funny stuff.

critics going after composers (when they were contemporaries)

Lexicon of Musical Invective: Critical Assaults on Composers Since Beethoven's Time https://www.amazon.com/dp/039332009X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_-VVTEbQSRD1D6

 

[monsterthompson]

I should just get this.
I have a feeling I'd like the work flow.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I should just get this.
I have a feeling I'd like the work flow.

Once you get used to # instead of wavs....imo it should be quite awesome to work with. Plus sampling and chopping seems pretty logical (akai...im looking at you....)

I'd bite the bullet and get one but....they are about the price of a car in cad $.

 

[emjazz]

so, bill frisell.

seriously one of the nicest guys you can meet. a real sweetheart. great player/musician.

i had the good fortune to room with him on a six-week tour in 1985 with julius hemphill’s j.a.h. band. unfortunately, no commercial recordings, cause the band was *incendiary*.

there is an archive of julius’s music that might have some board or audience recordings, as we sent the archivists some of those.

check out this band (they don’t have the year, so it’s not clear if it’s bill or not).

Cuid 20682-01. Julius Hemphill JAH Band. Julius Hemphill, as, ss; Nels Cline, Alan Jaffe, and/or Bill Frisell, g; Steubig, b; Alex Cline, dr.
Concert recording.
Dung 00:00–17:00
The Thing (Temporarily)(Cosmic Country Boy) 17:00–34:30
One/Waltz/Time 35:00–45:30
Cuid 20682-02.
Testament #5 00:00–14:30
Pigskin 14:30–32:30
Georgia Blue 32:40–41:00
Dogon A.D. 41:00–

Are you kidding me??!! You were in that band???!!!! Bill and Nels were just posting about that band the other day. It seems Julius' compositions and such have just been released, along with lots of other information from his life as a musician. That must have been a dream. Whoa man. Yes.

 

[emjazz]

there's a bunch in here for me to mull over.

100% . . . not sure i ever get there?

the narrative aspect is a big one for me as well. "flow" . . .

emotional . . . that's a tougher one for me to crack. i guess i'm just trying to do something that interests and has a cool vibe?

i probably have a different process? at some points i'm very task-oriented: i conceive what i want to do, the components that it entails and then set out to do it. usually things change on the way, but i'll often have a framework that i start with and then fill in. (e.g. "okay, i like this idea, lemme work on it, okay i like the direction, i'm gonna do seven small pieces like this, i need to have contrasts, blah, blah, blah").




this, to me, is the distillation. *do the work* . . . everything else follows.

I wanted to come back to this...I'm glad you said what you did about having a concept for a full recording...but a single concept to mine. I usually have a concept in mind for each piece, as you've mentioned, but I really want to focus on the bigger picture...having a single concept for an entire project. That's bigger thinking for sure. I love that.

 

[emjazz]

so, bill frisell.

seriously one of the nicest guys you can meet. a real sweetheart. great player/musician.

i had the good fortune to room with him on a six-week tour in 1985 with julius hemphill’s j.a.h. band. unfortunately, no commercial recordings, cause the band was *incendiary*.

there is an archive of julius’s music that might have some board or audience recordings, as we sent the archivists some of those.

check out this band (they don’t have the year, so it’s not clear if it’s bill or not).

Cuid 20682-01. Julius Hemphill JAH Band. Julius Hemphill, as, ss; Nels Cline, Alan Jaffe, and/or Bill Frisell, g; Steubig, b; Alex Cline, dr.
Concert recording.
Dung 00:00–17:00
The Thing (Temporarily)(Cosmic Country Boy) 17:00–34:30
One/Waltz/Time 35:00–45:30
Cuid 20682-02.
Testament #5 00:00–14:30
Pigskin 14:30–32:30
Georgia Blue 32:40–41:00
Dogon A.D. 41:00–

Nevermind..that's exactly what you have linked to..the JH papers. Amazing stuff!!!