Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[ugly_bassplayer]

A friend who took his turn as department chair for one of the big university music departments in the U.S. (you'll see why I am keeping this vague in a few words) once told me he thought that academic music schools were the "last refuge for people who hate music." There is a lot of snobbery and normative thinking in formal music education. BUT I do work with some music students in my day job, and if they find me, they are generally more open minded. Especially the ones not following the traditional symphony or jazz conservatory model in their education.

I also hate snobbery, and worse the "nothing good has come out since [insert year]." It's an unbelievably good time in the history of music. Even if I don't like something new, if I've never heard it before, I can still learn something from it. And I don't care what others' like, except inasmuch as they expose me to interesting new music....

You work at any of the music universities??
Almost went school in MTL was accepted at U de M...... and Mcgill (got blocked a that place, they didn’t accept « electric » players)
That was in.....hmmmm......2003....

 

[steubig]

damn, step away for a while and all the fun happens.

metal in other music: seems to me kids grow up with something and then they gravitate to something else; they carry what influenced them into the next thing (which wraps around to my theory about people singing more like chester b in certain metal styles).

again, i'm older than you guys, so keep that in mind when reading this next bit.

black sabbath is arguably the first metal band; i hear them as having massive blues influence (ozzie sounds like otis rush to me, etc.). i hear them as working class birmingham blues. as things go along, you have kids who grew hearing metal, but who don't get the blues thing—so you get bands like metallica or pantera (both of whom have albums i really like) who have zero (imo) blues influence.

so all those kids who grew up on metal take stylizations and sounds into other directions. there's a whole thing in the nyc avant jazz scene where people are doing music that's obviously (and purposefully) influenced by metal.

anyway, seems like a natural progression to me.



purists: arrgh. so boring. i pretty much ignored them in school. (i have had my own purist moments . . . ugh)

evh kinda jump-started a new guitar sound (imo), whether you consider him hair metal i don't know.

music schools: people can give you information, but they can't teach you to *really* play. i know some guys with phds in music who cannot play.

i had a piano teach in college (ca 1979) who basically said that music ended with mozart.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

i had a piano teach in college (ca 1979) who basically said that music ended with mozart.

Dang.....he must have been the life of the party. (Zzzzzzz)
He should have hooked up with the sax teacher that told us he couldn’t stand anything past 1959.

Prozac on sleeping pills with bear tranquilizer right there.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Teachers need to be way more open minded

I got my Master's degree at the New England Conservatory of Music...but I almost didn't make it past the first semester, because I was momentarily astonished at how seemingly close-minded so many of the professors appeared to be. It took a close friend reminding me "Bob...it's called a Conservatory for a reason!" to get my perspective straight.

In hindsight, I've been lucky: Nearly every music teacher I ever had subscribed to the notion You've Gotta Know The Rules Before You Can Break The Rules.
Once I demonstrated that I Knew The Rules, they were wonderfully encouraging about the ways I would occasionally break them.


...and by "occasionally" I mean always.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I got my Master's degree at the New England Conservatory of Music...but I almost didn't make it past the first semester, because I was momentarily astonished at how seemingly close-minded so many of the professors appeared to be. It took a close friend reminding me "Bob...it's called a Conservatory for a reason!" to get my perspective straight.

In hindsight, I've been lucky: Nearly every music teacher I ever had subscribed to the notion You've Gotta Know The Rules Before You Can Break The Rules.
Once I demonstrated that I Knew The Rules, they were wonderfully encouraging about the ways I would occasionally break them.


...and by "occasionally" I mean always.

One of my buddies ended his masters degree with a dissertation that explained exactly that.
How the conservatives are destroying innovation by demeaning those who « broke the rules » in the academics of music.

He actually got a good grade and his Masters. Kaboom.
I played in his band for the live final masters exam....one hour worth of material.....damn those tunes where hard.

I never got the paper, I quit one semester before completing my bachelors degree.
(But that’s a whole other story.......a long one at that.)

 

[lordradish]

My Digitakt's up for sale. If one of you fine people get it, price is a bit more negotiable.
For Sale - Elektron Digitakt drum machine, barely used

 

[JES]

a whole thing in the nyc avant jazz scene where people are doing music that's obviously (and purposefully) influenced by metal.

I would love some suggestions to check out. We haven’t gotten to avant garde and jazz but that’s another set of genres I really like.

 

[JES]

Almost went school in MTL was accepted at U de M...... and Mcgill (got blocked a that place, they didn’t accept « electric » players)
That was in.....hmmmm......2003....

In 1989 the University of Minnesota told me “bass guitar is not an instrument.” So much for my undergrad music major. . . .

 

[theunknowndude]

Funny talking of technicality in progression of metal...
I love gojira for that... they sounds sooooooo heavy... and yet they are barely down tuned at all it’s just in their composition...

Same goes for Dillinger escape plan... mmm thanks now I have to go listen to some Dillinger!

and yep it’s funny my band grew up on all of the bands of the 90’s... a diverse mix but usually the thrash/groove/nu/alt metal stuff and the hard rock etc...
Depends on each track but pretty much a big melting pot of Metallica/pantera/coal chamber/ machine head/ godsmack/silverchair/ Alice in chains/slipknot/disturbed/ helmet etc... I guess most artists are similar and every 20 years or so try and reinterpret the bands they grew up on.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

In 1989 the University of Minnesota told me “bass guitar is not an instrument.” So much for my undergrad music major. . . .

Damn, I know the exact feeling.
There was (still is...IMO ) a blatant bias against the electric bass in academia of « jazz ».
Jeez Bob Cranshaw did good (read efffin awesome) with Sonny Rollins for 50 years. (Not all on electric yes I know. ...)
Legendary stuff right there.

%%^&* the purists.

@theunknowndude
Got the chance to see dillinger live at the last tour they did in a small club here in QC
It was crazy. Spent the entire set in the pit.
The bruises and stiff ribs where worth it.
As soon as the played the first note I through my drink accross the room and ran into the pit like a possessed ape, my brain just shut off and went nuts.
It was perfect.
(Except for another douche who wanted to fight....but that ended pretty quick.
In a very stern but non violent way.

Side note.....i hate the "term" mathcore.
How about....just dope music shizzle.

 

[JES]

Funny talking of technicality in progression of metal...
I love gojira for that... they sounds sooooooo heavy... and yet they are barely down tuned at all it’s just in their composition...

Checking out Gojira right now. I'm starting with Magma but if you recommend particular records, please say so.

 

[JES]

There was (still is...IMO ) a blatant bias against the electric bass in academia of « jazz ».
Jeez Bob Cranshaw did good (read efffin awesome) with Sonny Rollins for 50 years. (Not all on electric yes I know. ...)
Legendary stuff right there.

Seriously. And it's been decades at this point, and there are so many innovators on electric in the jazz idiom. That said, there are a lot of people in music schools today who don't think that way. It's just that the medieval structure of the university allows a few conservative individuals to control whole curricula. For the last 30 years or so there have been constant fights about this (all across music schools--the music ed, music theory, composition, musicology, and ethnomusicology people are dealing with this too). Things are changing but old paradigms have to literally die out sometimes.

 

[dukeorock]

Had a gig in Indiana last night. I’ve done very few gigs since mid March and sure enough when we got there, I realized I’d forgotten my amp! I’m a Mesa endorser and play mostly a D800 or an M9. I ran to a GC and they were seriously low on inventory. The only thing even in the ballpark of a usable live amp was a Fender Rumble 500 210 combo, so I bought it for $699 thinking I’d return it today or tomorrow. I stacked it on my hand made sealed 18” cab and I hate to admit how good it sounded, even without my Grace preamp I normally use for upright. Electric sounded decent through it as well (Fano 4 string w/ Dennis Fano T Bird style pickups). I didn’t need the expense with tax time coming this week, but I’m thinking about keeping it as a backup

 

[JES]

I have only played the Rumbles in shops (and awhile ago) but was shocked at how good they sounded. We are embarrassed for choice these days.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Had a gig in Indiana last night. I’ve done very few gigs since mid March and sure enough when we got there, I realized I’d forgotten my amp! I’m a Mesa endorser and play mostly a D800 or an M9. I ran to a GC and they were seriously low on inventory. The only thing even in the ballpark of a usable live amp was a Fender Rumble 500 210 combo, so I bought it for $699 thinking I’d return it today or tomorrow. I stacked it on my hand made sealed 18” cab and I hate to admit how good it sounded, even without my Grace preamp I normally use for upright. Electric sounded decent through it as well (Fano 4 string w/ Dennis Fano T Bird style pickups). I didn’t need the expense with tax time coming this week, but I’m thinking about keeping it as a backup

That’s a good problem to have, never tried one myself.
210 never seemed to work for me. But I only tried ampeg and markbass 210 cabs.

Side note.....
Anyone here have any recommendations or a place to buy a good set of 5 strings for a short scale 30’’ bass???????

I’d tune a 30 inch 4 to B standard or C standard.

 

[emjazz]

Funny talking of technicality in progression of metal...
I love gojira for that... they sounds sooooooo heavy... and yet they are barely down tuned at all it’s just in their composition...

Same goes for Dillinger escape plan... mmm thanks now I have to go listen to some Dillinger!

and yep it’s funny my band grew up on all of the bands of the 90’s... a diverse mix but usually the thrash/groove/nu/alt metal stuff and the hard rock etc...
Depends on each track but pretty much a big melting pot of Metallica/pantera/coal chamber/ machine head/ godsmack/silverchair/ Alice in chains/slipknot/disturbed/ helmet etc... I guess most artists are similar and every 20 years or so try and reinterpret the bands they grew up on.

Helmet!!!!! Love that band.

 

[steubig]

I would love some suggestions to check out. We haven’t gotten to avant garde and jazz but that’s another set of genres I really like.

it’s been going on for a while. john zorn did pain killer and a few other bands that had that stuff. drummer from slayer was in one. naked city had some metal aspects, but’s a cut-up band (i think bungle listened to them, why zorn produced one alb.).

currently there’s stare baby, matt mitchell—both of them are probably more out of the messugah rhythmic thing. a bunch of guitarists are bridging. alvaro domene is one i know of (mostly cause he called me when he came to l.a.). mike patton’s bands def go in and out of that territory at times.

i know a fair amount of guys in their lates 20s, early 30s who are improv (and new classical guys) and super into that stuff. it’s not always metal, but it can come out.

 

[monsterthompson]

Got out a few cables and started toying with the Ric-O-Sound on my 4003. Bridge PU into distortion and delay/reverb, and neck PU clean. Took a little fiddling, but I might have found a few settings I'd consider using on a track or two. Of course, it is summer heat time, so I'm sweating away and not wanting to plug in anything electronic.

 

[lordradish]

Had a gig in Indiana last night. I’ve done very few gigs since mid March and sure enough when we got there, I realized I’d forgotten my amp! I’m a Mesa endorser and play mostly a D800 or an M9. I ran to a GC and they were seriously low on inventory. The only thing even in the ballpark of a usable live amp was a Fender Rumble 500 210 combo, so I bought it for $699 thinking I’d return it today or tomorrow. I stacked it on my hand made sealed 18” cab and I hate to admit how good it sounded, even without my Grace preamp I normally use for upright. Electric sounded decent through it as well (Fano 4 string w/ Dennis Fano T Bird style pickups). I didn’t need the expense with tax time coming this week, but I’m thinking about keeping it as a backup

Before I got my markbass combo, I tried a rumble, I think it was the 15. Sent it back, just couldn't get me excited. But they do seem to be pretty popular and at a good price point.

 

[dukeorock]

Before I got my markbass combo, I tried a rumble, I think it was the 15. Sent it back, just couldn't get me excited. But they do seem to be pretty popular and at a good price point.

Oh gosh, I’m not claiming they’re a be all, end all by any stretch! I was just surprised how well it did on upright without a pre for 700 bucks. Like, really surprised. For electric bass I much prefer my Mesa stuff, but that’s just my preference. I also stacked the Rumble 210 combo on top of a boutique cab. Part of what I loved could be a simple matter of having speakers up closer to my ears as I haven’t really tried the Rumble by itself yet