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Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread
- Thread starter ttasselm
- Start date
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
Just listened to a Radiolab podcast episode called “The Vanishing of Harry Pace.” Great historical account of the music biz from the turn of the century to around 1930. Amazing, I thought
Hey all...this is a sensitive subject for sure, but I'm making a record in September, and one of the pieces will have names of people that we've lost from covid. There won't be anything political about it, just a piece in remembrance of what we've been through personally and collectively. If you feel that there is someone that you'd like to be included in the music then you can send me a PM with their name, either here or on Instagram. It'll be instrumental, but the names of people will be the introduction to the music. Thanks so much. If this is a trigger for anyone, do let me know and I'll remove it.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
That means a lot coming from you, truly. Thank you!
Thinking about "polyrhythms" today and realizing that I'm probably thinking more about polymeters, Andrew does a decent job of spelling out the differences with a minimal number of screen-fives. What's worth sharing is the clever stunts at the end of his video for making clips in the DAW, particularly Ableton Live (video link below should jump right to the timestamp).
Want to post this before I forget - it's related to tape delay - one of my favorite Soft Machine releases is the NDR Jazz Workshop from 1973 - in addition to the beautiful white Bass VI, the playing is phenomenal, and there are a couple of cool stories attached. For example, one of the opening acts was Linda Hoyle, who was in Affinity. It was supposed to be her comeback, but audience members were yelling - apparently it negatively affected the performance because it seemed they didn't like the music - in fact, she left the music business again - but they were actually yelling about the PA mix?!!
Hugh Hopper also performed 1983 (and this is where the story becomes relevant) - I can't find the liner notes online, so I typed them out:
Hopper's "1983" set was a daring experiment to say the least. The most impressive part of the performance involved several tape recorders, resting on two scaffolding towers and holding long, variable-speed loops totally about 50 yards. As for the actual performance, while Jenkins, Ratledge, and Babbington were amplified normally, Marshall's drums and Hopper's lead lines were put through a tape-delay system which replicated their interplay a split-second later at varying speeds. Wrote the NME's Roy Carr, "as Hugh launched into the menacing fuzz bass theme with the band following on, a strange blend of sub-aqua whaling moans and percussive white noise built up, as one set of Revoxes recorded and played back the bass, the other Marshall's drumming." The impressive finale consisted of letting the tapes complete the piece by themselves... Unfortunately, as noted by Hopper when the present release was first discussed, it appears that "1983" as preserved on tape is incomplete, the mix focusing on Hopper's and Marshall's contributions at the expense of pretty much everything else...
And maybe the best part:
Although no footage survives of that set, thanks to the great quality of the video, one can actually see the loops shimmering on the scaffolding to the left of Karl Jenkins.
Not sure you can see it in the trailer, but you can see the scaffolding for sure. I know most people seem to prefer the Hugh Hopper years, and I get it, but this is definitely one of my favorite Soft Machine performances.
besides getting to witness your intelligence, generosity of spirit and well-considered insight, it gave me a window into music and people that were part of a pretty big blind spot for me and an entre into a crazy technique.
after watching some of those guys (your boy joe fick, for one), i was trying to figure out how to do an analog on ebass (that’s either gonna take a while or be unsuccessful).
btw, i have a friend who does some serious doctoring with bee’s wax and vaseline (really! i’ve done it) to new flatwounds to get them less lively, might be worth an experiment with the rotos (iirc, that’s what you guys were talking about?).
anyway, i got a lot out of it.
Killing flats.
Eucerine cream, the thick paste.
Kills em dead.
Odorless, non toxic, won't damage anything and wipes away clean on the fingerboard etc....
@dukeorock ...watching your interview now...this is wonderful. Thank you for sharing!!
As someone who's spent an awful lot of time both exploring and explaining polymeters and polyrhythms, I find some of what Andrew says in that video raises my hackles...he doesn't say anything "incorrect" per se, it's just that his entire explanation exists exclusively in a DAW-centric universe, so he's not really explaining the concepts so much as a type-of-execution. Be that as it may, anything to get folks interested in poly-musics!
+1 on Eucerin. I have to use it all the time because of my hands, and if I play an instrument for “just a minute” without the gloves, the strings go dead.
Looking forward to watching the @dukeorock interview that’s all the craze on here. Just gotta find a moment alone to sit and listen.
I’m mixing a record right now and am reminded that my hated for ProTools is legion. How is the “industry standard” the most inelegantly designed and also the most crash prone DAW?
Also, I know this is a hardware-biased thread, but has anyone messed around with alternatives to “amp sims” in software? Been playing with Decapitator and cutting highs and lows. Pretty interesting. My wife recently said “you love Decapitator, don’t you?” Also, I picked up the Neunaber Wet plug-in, and am really liking it.
Looking forward to watching the @dukeorock interview that’s all the craze on here. Just gotta find a moment alone to sit and listen.
I’m mixing a record right now and am reminded that my hated for ProTools is legion. How is the “industry standard” the most inelegantly designed and also the most crash prone DAW?
Also, I know this is a hardware-biased thread, but has anyone messed around with alternatives to “amp sims” in software? Been playing with Decapitator and cutting highs and lows. Pretty interesting. My wife recently said “you love Decapitator, don’t you?” Also, I picked up the Neunaber Wet plug-in, and am really liking it.
Last edited:
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I’m glad and thank you! I’ve made a couple half hearted attempts at transferring upright slap techniques to electric. It’s tough for sure. Part of it (I think) is the curvature of an upright fingerboard, as well as somewhat high action that gives upright the advantage. As for deadening the mids on synthetic upright strings, I may revisit that because gut strings are insanely expensive. There are a bunch of players that make synthetic strings work, but my very favorite players (tone-wise) still use raw gut on at least the D&G. I think the reason slap upright isn’t very fashionable is that it’s seen as a thing used just for rockabilly and psychobilly music, which are typically pretty goofy and dumb genres with a couple great exceptions. Milt Hinton would be a great example of a legit modern (ish) jazz player who used slap upright in a meaningful way. It’s also used a lot in so called Gypsy music. Vlad Viorel from Taraf de Haidouks is really great. I’ve been thinking of trying more slap upright in a non americana/roots way for a long time now. Just gotta get off my butt and do it!
Noted! Thanks
Thanks!
I love Decapitator! Amp sims are tough. Many tend to sound just fine in a mix, but unnatural when you’re trying to play through them on the way in. I use Logic for my DAW, but I’m not trying to get his as an engineer. I mix records from time to time, but no one really cares what DAW you mix in if it sounds good
Time to break out the Subharmonicon…
I hate all DAWS equally.
I don't discriminate.
But I've been on Live for the past 15 years.
Way too lazy to learn another one and too cheap to get the latest version, I still run Live 8.
For me its the ultimate creativity killer.
But it's absolutely essential in today's music, so I use it for more technical stuff like mixing or editing complex structures etc......
That is incredibly cool, thanks for sharing.
.
I'm a stubborn holdout. I never use a DAW. I guess it limits me but so what, I ain't no "professional" and that's fine with me.
I'm a stubborn holdout. I never use a DAW. I guess it limits me but so what, I ain't no "professional" and that's fine with me.
How do you multitrack, then? A Zoom? 2 inch tape? Tascam Portastudio 424?
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I bought one when they came out, but returned it after a couple weeks. Often wish I had kept it because it’s super interesting. I loved that weird little sequencer! I mainly didn’t like the filter, but often think I should’ve hung onto it
Hate is a strong word for a Canadian
I’ve not had much luck trying to come up with music I like purely in the DAW, but love em for editing and mixing, prepping samples to load into the Octatrack, etc. I think Logic is a steal at $200 for everything that’s included. But again, I don’t really try to create or write much in it. Just recording, editing and mixing and for that it’s pretty dang good
