Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[ugly_bassplayer]

25867598[/URL], member: 37282"]I'm interested in the step between finding stuff to sample (no problem) and performing with it to make music (also probably not a problem but I'm interested to hear what you do).

What do you do to edit/prepare a sample? How many do you prepare before you're ready for a performance or recording?

My old approach was: take a long recording, drag into software granulator of choice (DENSITY for the win), mangle, repeat, profit. Add a second track and some other sounds, finished track.

That's not going to work if I'm playing outside the computer. For one thing, most hardware samplers don't like long samples, and if they do, scanning around in them sucks. For another, I want to make more rhythmically interesting music. My old granular stuff is very drone oriented.

My new approach has to get from long recordings to short recordings as my source material. I've got a few different ways to play back samples outside the computer: Octatrack, iOS samplers, Eurorack module (one sample at a time).

My main concern right now is that I'll never finish "preparing" samples and get to the fun part.

This is not an emergency.

Ok, hope this helps….

For performing with samples I never use a computer or iPad. Always either my sampler or a Boss RC-3.

As for creating, that gets more complicated since I use many different workflows. It depends on what I want the end result to be. Here are a few:

I only use a computer to create something intended to be played the same way 100% of the time.
For example, the interludes between songs on my bands albums. Those are triggered live using a Boss RC-3.
On the computer, I usually import whatever I want to sample on one track then slice and chop everything on another one in Ableton. Then piece everything together like an infinite puzzle.
I mangle and resample everything in the box, bounce then use in whatever I want. Pedal, sampler…..etc…..
Those can be sound manipulated live with a dedicated “sound manipulation” pedal board. So same sample plays but can sound different every live gig.

For my SP, 99.999999% of the time I sample everything in real time, even long samples.
Then I chop, slice, resample all in the sampler or with stereo pedals directly on the L-R out of the SP.
For that I bounce back and forth from my SP to my 4 track……then profit. I really like this process because it forces you to take decisions and you cant go back on your idea. For example , if said song takes 32 steps, you cant go back to step 14 because you dont like the way the synth pad comes into the mix. Learn to live with you r decisions, mistakes and sometimes happy accidents.

One of my favorite ways of playing samples is thinking that my SP is a virtual multi track tape machine running multiple asynchronous loops.
I then tweak FX live into my 4 track to get something more “human” feeling, mistakes and all. So its hit or miss.
For that process I prepare my samples VERY carefully separated in freq range, pan L or R, pad\pitch\percussive and sound texture.

My album “There is No Light”


was entirely made this way. Extremely time consuming and soul crushing, but I wouldn't do it any other way. Failing, like I certainly said often on this thread, is a huge part of my creative process.

So, I the end, I want my stuff to be “played by a human” into whatever is recording.

Hope this helps, dont hesitate to ask any other questions you might have.

 

[Spectrum]

In an effort to keep myself busy I recorded another pedal feedback loop thing. What the heck.

 

[hieronymous]

Yes, absolutely. It takes a little planning (do you record pre or post fader, how do you have the FX send set up, etc) but it works. It's not meant primarily as a portastudio but it can sort of work that way.

Thanks for that - sorry to bug you about it. I guess I was thinking about it as a portastudio kind of thing, but it's really a mixer - gotta wrap my head around that. Right now my only mixer is the little 4-channel one that came with the Moog Sound Studio bundle - it's somewhat convenient, but the way it clips on the stand prevents you from accessing the mono/stereo switches - it's pretty bare-bones actually...

Ok, hope this helps….

For performing with samples I never use a computer or iPad. Always either my sampler or a Boss RC-3.

As for creating, that gets more complicated since I use many different workflows. It depends on what I want the end result to be. Here are a few:

I only use a computer to create something intended to be played the same way 100% of the time.
For example, the interludes between songs on my bands albums. Those are triggered live using a Boss RC-3.
On the computer, I usually import whatever I want to sample on one track then slice and chop everything on another one in Ableton. Then piece everything together like an infinite puzzle.
I mangle and resample everything in the box, bounce then use in whatever I want. Pedal, sampler…..etc…..
Those can be sound manipulated live with a dedicated “sound manipulation” pedal board. So same sample plays but can sound different every live gig.

For my SP, 99.999999% of the time I sample everything in real time, even long samples.
Then I chop, slice, resample all in the sampler or with stereo pedals directly on the L-R out of the SP.
For that I bounce back and forth from my SP to my 4 track……then profit. I really like this process because it forces you to take decisions and you cant go back on your idea. For example , if said song takes 32 steps, you cant go back to step 14 because you dont like the way the synth pad comes into the mix. Learn to live with you r decisions, mistakes and sometimes happy accidents.

One of my favorite ways of playing samples is thinking that my SP is a virtual multi track tape machine running multiple asynchronous loops.
I then tweak FX live into my 4 track to get something more “human” feeling, mistakes and all. So its hit or miss.
For that process I prepare my samples VERY carefully separated in freq range, pan L or R, pad\pitch\percussive and sound texture.

My album “There is No Light”


was entirely made this way. Extremely time consuming and soul crushing, but I wouldn't do it any other way. Failing, like I certainly said often on this thread, is a huge part of my creative process.

So, I the end, I want my stuff to be “played by a human” into whatever is recording.

Hope this helps, dont hesitate to ask any other questions you might have.

In an effort to keep myself busy I recorded another pedal feedback loop thing. What the heck.

You guys are gonna make me fire up my gear, aren't you? I think I'm going to do a sequence on the Sirin with DFAM/Subharmonicon accompaniment. Now which effects am I going to need to dig out...

 

[hieronymous]

OK I'm done for now



Everything recorded live - these are basically the raw files, I spread them out in the stereo field and played it through my blueSky for reverb. Might go back and process each instrument separately, gonna wait and see what I think tomorrow. I kind of like it this way! But I think some delay on the bass, maybe the Sirin sequence.

 

[JES]

Thanks for that - sorry to bug you about it. I guess I was thinking about it as a portastudio kind of thing, but it's really a mixer - gotta wrap my head around that. Right now my only mixer is the little 4-channel one that came with the Moog Sound Studio bundle - it's somewhat convenient, but the way it clips on the stand prevents you from accessing the mono/stereo switches - it's pretty bare-bones actually...

If we can't bug each other about gear on this thread, where can we bug each other about gear? All the ingredients are there on the Bluebox, and you could even battery power it. Every channel has an EQ and multiple sends, you can arm and disarm individual channels, set gains and levels, etc. They just added basic wav editing and punch ins in the latest update. It's just that you'd be doing a lot of screen switching, and it is small. I could see it with a controller, but you'd have to zero out the controller at the start of each session because it jumps to wherever the controller is. The one downside of the internal effects is that you can't set their return level, so it's all about being very careful with the sends.

It's not perfect, but I am absolutely convinced of its utility. I almost bought another Mackie but the new ones are having quality control problems, and I didn't need mic preamps, so this seemed like a no-brainer. I played some touch guitar through mine yesterday as I'm refining my setup, and can report that the latency is undetectable.

EDIT: but it is USB powered. If you're getting noise, give it its own power supply. I have a little USB distribution power thingy on my table and that seems to work for now.

 

[JES]

Thank you @ugly. Your reply was exactly what I was hoping for. Now like the keener at the front of the class, allow me to ask some followup questions:

I mangle and resample everything in the box, bounce then use in whatever I want. Pedal, sampler…..etc…..
Those can be sound manipulated live with a dedicated “sound manipulation” pedal board. So same sample plays but can sound different every live gig.

How do you decide between what's stable and what's to be messed with each time? Or is it just practicality that your pedalboard can't do certain things that the computer can?

For my SP, 99.999999% of the time I sample everything in real time, even long samples.
Then I chop, slice, resample all in the sampler or with stereo pedals directly on the L-R out of the SP.
For that I bounce back and forth from my SP to my 4 track……then profit.

This is the part I'm trying to figure out: how many samples do you need to make a track? Did you sample in everything before the performances and recordings that made up There Is No Light or did you do it iteratively somehow?

I love sample-based music, but in the past for me it's always been a lot of sound using a few samples, because of my focus on granular -- that also enforced a kind of coherence so I didn't have to think about that sort of thing. I am interested in exploring other directions now.

For that process I prepare my samples VERY carefully separated in freq range, pan L or R, pad\pitch\percussive and sound texture.

That makes it sound like you collect everything and then put it in its place in the audio field, and then play it(?)

I then tweak FX live into my 4 track to get something more “human” feeling, mistakes and all. So its hit or miss.

This is what I'm going for. Make and record a lot and then see what comes out. It's actually how I do my writing, and has been very successful (I also never think about gear when writing--whereas lots of my students who struggle with writing experiment with workflow...hmmm, makes one think...)

BTW, I listened to that record again this morning. I hear it really differently now that I understand how you made it!

Thanks again, seriously. Next virtual round is on me.

 

[lordradish]

My album “There is No Light”

Whadya mean there's no light? There's one right on the album cover.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Thank you @ugly. Your reply was exactly what I was hoping for. Now like the keener at the front of the class, allow me to ask some followup questions:

How do you decide between what's stable and what's to be messed with each time? Or is it just practicality that your pedalboard can't do certain things that the computer can?
—With the band, the “stable” samples (already mangled and tweaked in the box) can get redundant after a while. Thats why they can be further manipulated live, keeps things fresh and unpredictable.


This is the part I'm trying to figure out: how many samples do you need to make a track? Did you sample in everything before the performances and recordings that made up There Is No Light or did you do it iteratively somehow?
— Number of samples depends on what I want to hear and how much space a specific sound takes in the audio range. I sample everything before the performance and place each sample on specific pads on my sampler.
For example:
Right pan on right side pads, low drones on lower ones….sort of “logical” areas on the pad grid so I dont get lost while performing the piece.

Number of samples can vary greatly since I often “resample”. So multiple samples can end up on one pad all stacked together.
But ive made tracks with very few basic samples and others with more than I can count.
I also mentally try plan what goes where in the audio field. Low, mid, high…..L-R…..percussion….pitched tones, colors, drones etc…..

That makes it sound like you collect everything and then put it in its place in the audio field, and then play it(?)
— Most definitely yes. (see above)

This is what I'm going for. Make and record a lot and then see what comes out. It's actually how I do my writing, and has been very successful (I also never think about gear when writing--whereas lots of my students who struggle with writing experiment with workflow...hmmm, makes one think...)

BTW, I listened to that record again this morning. I hear it really differently now that I understand how you made it!
— That made me smile. Every listen I get is VERY much appreciated.
(Many samples on that one are field recordings BTW, )

Thanks again, seriously. Next virtual round is on me.
—My pleasure. Share the knowledge I say!!!

@JES

 

[JES]

Thank you @Ugly!

I’m following up with a question for @dukeorock : I’m considering using my Octatrack for this purpose (vs iPad) and am curious whether you make a default template in the OT and save it to a new project every time, or always work in the same project. Relatedly, do you have default settings you always use?

 

[Bob_Ross]

I sold those things because it was getting kinda samey.

man, I really admire that kind of self-reflection and discipline! I need to apply more of that to my own tools.

a dozen years ago or so I “retired” the ancient Electro-Harmonix Talking Pedal from my live stompbox assortment because everything I was using it for was sounding kinda samey…and because despite that I was using it too much.

But I’m overdue for another culling…and/or some serious woodshed time to develop the vocabularies of the pedals I’m still using.

 

[dukeorock]

Thank you @Ugly!

I’m following up with a question for @dukeorock : I’m considering using my Octatrack for this purpose (vs iPad) and am curious whether you make a default template in the OT and save it to a new project every time, or always work in the same project. Relatedly, do you have default settings you always use?

I already feel bad that this answer is gonna suck! I made a couple templates early on, then abandoned them, but I’ve recently been tempted to make a couple now that have more experience with the Octatrack. It would be fairly basic as I don’t have a set way of working each song, but here are some basic things I would put in a template.
1. Pre assigned midi channels. Only because they’re a tad clunky to assign and it would save a minute or two.
2. Tracks 1-7 Flex and track 8 Master. Easy enough to change but I do that more often than not.
3. No fx assigned to any tracks
4. 24 bit recording
5. Cue set to ‘studio mode’
6. Track length per pattern

Those are some off the top of my head. Been driving for 12 hours through the night and still have a few hours to go so brain is mushier than normal

 

[dukeorock]

My album “There is No Light”

.

You really have your own unique sense of texture, ugly. I admire that

 

[dukeorock]

In an effort to keep myself busy I recorded another pedal feedback loop thing. What the heck.

Sounds cool!

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

You really have your own unique sense of texture, ugly. I admire that

Thanks, means a lot, really does.

 

[dukeorock]

OK I'm done for now



Everything recorded live - these are basically the raw files, I spread them out in the stereo field and played it through my blueSky for reverb. Might go back and process each instrument separately, gonna wait and see what I think tomorrow. I kind of like it this way! But I think some delay on the bass, maybe the Sirin sequence.

You turned that Alembic into the prettiest and most expensive tb303 ever
Sounds nice! I occasionally regret selling my Subharmonicon. When it worked, it worked well. My main struggles with it were getting it to mesh well with any of my other gear in both tuning and texture. But there really is nothing quite like it

 

[monsterthompson]

Just back from vacation. Lots of catching up to do. Currently working on mapping the Zoia to be a mini midi clip launcher in Ableton.

 

[monsterthompson]

Watched this Melvins doc today. Holy cow, what a career. Definitely a band with a vision and no compromising.
The Colossus Of Destiny - A Melvins Tale

 

[monsterthompson]

 

[theunknowndude]

Watched this Melvins doc today. Holy cow, what a career. Definitely a band with a vision and no compromising.
The Colossus Of Destiny - A Melvins Tale

Never been overly into them from the 2 cds I bought, but when they opened for tool one of the times I saw tool they were pretty good…
All I remember from them really is a live tool cover song that they did that I got from Napster or limewire or one of those… and it opens with Maynard stating “we just won a Grammy so eyes down please… oh and this is buzz…. From the melvins….”

 

[theunknowndude]

Oh and the tool / Melvins collaboration that featured in crybaby… I thought that was epic at the time

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.fourtheye.net/2011/09/tool-revisited-part-1-divorced/amp/

( I’m not a hardcore tool fan but more a tool than melvins Woops sorry for my bias!)