Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[Starthief]

Does anyone want to convince me not to get a Microfreak? This would be my first foray into keyboards/synth and I have more interest in making some interesting sounds out of the box than sitting down and learning how to "play piano." The Microfreak seems well suited to this but I know basically nothing about this stuff. (And I don't care to dive into the money pit of Eurorack.)

I had one for while. I'm not much of a keyboard player either but found the controller pretty neat. The arpeggiator is a good one, the mini-sequencer is alright, and I found the Hold button really handy both for drones and arps.

It'll do interesting sounds for sure. There's a good variety of algorithms for the oscillators, including some solid bread and butter stuff that's worth coming back to regularly, some odder but still excellent things, and just a couple that I don't really think fit the instrument very well (many of them came from open-source Mutable Instruments Plaits code and they didn't consult with them about their choices, adjusting control ranges and defaults etc.). The filter sounds pretty great IMHO whether you want snappy plucky sounds, or slow sweeps to pick up different harmonics in a massive chord or cluster.

One downside is you can't directly control the VCA with pressure. The VCA is tied to an envelope. You can assign pressure to modulate the sustain level, but you get still get the attack stage up to full volume and then the decay back down, so at minimum, an unfortunate little click. The pressure also doesn't have any slew to it so it's pretty unstable.

The main reason I wound up selling mine was I mostly found myself using it to take advantage of the controller and arp/sequencer -- the synth itself wasn't offering me much that I can't do just as well or better in modular or software or the Minibrute 2S. And it's not entirely knob-per-function, and the longer I mess with modular, the more insistent I am on that (even though I still like using software synths, go figure).

For what it's worth, I bought mine in September 2020 at a discount for $280, sold it last month for $250, which is still well under Reverb prices...

I don't know the Hydrasynth that well, just messed with one briefly at Knobcon when ASM suddenly appeared out of nowhere with it, and thought it sounded great. AFAIK the Hydrasynth is fully digital but also polyphonic, where the Microfreak is a hybrid but there's just the one analog filter, so it's paraphonic.

 

[steubig]

I'm seeing $599 for the Hydrasynth Explorer and $349 for the Microfreak. The budget I set is completely arbitrary though.

Watching a Hydrasynth Explorer demo now and it definitely seems awesome. Is it sort of a different animal than the Microfreak to some extent? Maybe it's just the guy doing the demo.

yeah, those are the numbers i saw. i think it's more likely that the micro can be more easily found used and cheaper than the hs exp, so you could probably shave some off of that $350.

my memory of the micro is that there's less under the hood and doesn't have real keys (just a playing surface). i'm not sure about its midi/mpe capabilities.

the exp is the basic hs engine, which is pretty amazing in my book, though i think the smaller form factor means a bit more menu diving. its keys are smaller, but do have the polyaftertouch/mpe capability, which means it's more flexible in the long run. the hs also has cv outs/ins if you want to hook up to modular (i've done this with the hs desktop's pads).

the midi/mpe thing could be more crucial if you want to interface with other mpe synths/daws.

 

[steubig]

hs is 8-voice poly. the mod matrix is ridiculous.

 

[lucas303]

I'm glad I asked here first. You guys are giving me more to think about.

If I extended my budget up to $600, is there anything that would compete with the Hydrasynth Explorer? Or up to that price is it pretty much the best choice?

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Sold my Microfreak
Excellent synth, user was the issue
For the xtra $$. I would definitely go with the HS

Went back to cheating and sample like I’ve always done.

 

[monsterthompson]

 

[Starthief]

doesn't have real keys (just a playing surface). i'm not sure about its midi/mpe capabilities.

I found I like touchplates a lot generally, but it can be a big adjustment from keys. When I first tried one I hated it and ignored it for a couple of years, but then after playing the Lyra-8 I decided I'd give it another chance and not try to think of it as a keyboard per se. I still like the 0-Ctrl better though.

It does send polyphonic aftertouch, not actual MPE though. Doesn't respond to poly aftertouch if I remember right.

 

[steubig]

I found I like touchplates a lot generally, but it can be a big adjustment from keys. When I first tried one I hated it and ignored it for a couple of years, but then after playing the Lyra-8 I decided I'd give it another chance and not try to think of it as a keyboard per se. I still like the 0-Ctrl better though.

It does send polyphonic aftertouch, not actual MPE though. Doesn't respond to poly aftertouch if I remember right.

for sure. one of the reasons why i like ipads and the o-control as well.

was meant as a point of reference. and good to know about the pat. is that based in pressure or amount of finger meat on the pads?

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

for sure. one of the reasons why i like ipads and the o-control as well.

was meant as a point of reference. and good to know about the pat. is that based in pressure or amount of finger meat on the pads?

the poly after touch was really sub par imo on the microfreak

 

[lucas303]

I watched a video that was able to dumb it down enough for me to understand the whole polytouch thing. I may just have to get the Hydrasynth Explorer after all.

 

[JES]

The guitarist in my post rock band has a Microfreak and does a lot with it—music, sound design, you name it. I’m pretty impressed with what he’s been able to get out of.

But there’s no doubt a Hydrasynth is “more powerful.” The question is whether you like the interface and sounds you get, and of course your budget.

 

[lordradish]

I watched a video that was able to dumb it down enough for me to understand the whole polytouch thing. I may just have to get the Hydrasynth Explorer after all.

I certainly understand the budget thing... you have to work with what you have. I think, though, in terms of what they can do, no comparison, and you're much more likely to be happy and keep the HS than the Freak. The HS is like a swiss army knife synth.

 

[lucas303]

Hydrasynth Explorer has been ordered. Thanks all.

 

[Bob_Ross]

One downside is you can't directly control the VCA with pressure. The VCA is tied to an envelope. You can assign pressure to modulate the sustain level, but you get still get the attack stage up to full volume and then the decay back down, so at minimum, an unfortunate little click.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but doesn't Pressure -- aka, Aftertouch...as distinctly different from Velocity -- always affect only the latter stages of the envelope, on any synthesizer?

I.e, you can't have Pressure affect the Attack portion because isn't Attack triggered as soon as you depress the keyboard? and then Pressure can only be registered subsequently (hence the name Aftertouch).

However, I can definitely see the limitations of not being able to route Pressure to parameters other than Sustain on the VCA.

 

[Starthief]

The aftertouch did need a little help

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but doesn't Pressure -- aka, Aftertouch...as distinctly different from Velocity -- always affect only the latter stages of the envelope, on any synthesizer?

That's the typical "East Coast" synth way, sure.

But the Ondes Martenot, Buchla Easel or Thunder, etc. often have direct pressure control over a VCA/LPG instead of an envelope. I've found I prefer playing that way myself. Rather than aftertouch, it is the whole touch.

 

[steubig]

Hydrasynth Explorer has been ordered. Thanks all.

.

congrats.

hope you love it.

there are a lot of good demos in yt. if you’re on fb there’s a group run by one of the asm folks and the developers chime in from time to time.

it’s a deep synth.

and i’m always available, though those folks are way more knowledgeable than me.

btw, if you’re into the microtonal thing, the hs engine has a bunch of microtonal scales.

 

[Bob_Ross]

But the Ondes Martenot, Buchla Easel or Thunder, etc. often have direct pressure control over a VCA/LPG instead of an envelope. I've found I prefer playing that way myself. Rather than aftertouch, it is the whole touch.

I find that description fascinating and inspiring...but I can't swear I understand how it actually works. So "direct pressure control over a VCA" means pressure is routed as a controller to the VCA's level, so it gets louder as you push harder ...and there's no ADSR trying to automate the volume parameter so it's entirely modulated by pressure?
If I'm grokking that correctly yeah, I can definitely see how that would be a rewarding way to program and play synthesizers.

 

[lucas303]

btw, if you’re into the microtonal thing, the hs engine has a bunch of microtonal scales.

Oh man, that is good to hear. If I hadn't ordered it already I would certainly now.

 

[steubig]

Oh man, that is good to hear. If I hadn't ordered it already I would certainly now.

i’d download the manual and get a headstart (they provide a printed one that is one of the better i’ve read).

the scales are per patch, not global. very handy, imo.

 

[Starthief]

So "direct pressure control over a VCA" means pressure is routed as a controller to the VCA's level, so it gets louder as you push harder ...and there's no ADSR trying to automate the volume parameter so it's entirely modulated by pressure?

Yep! It can be a very natural way of playing. I think breath controllers generally work that way too?