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Amp "tone" unimportant when using di?

yes i know what you are saying but specs don't always tell the full story. you can use it shure. lol

i'm not saying it won't work at all. in my experience though when you mic a bass amp the sound is muddier or thinner sounding (depending on the mic) than going straight out of the head. thus making for a sound that is not as good to my ears.

bass sounds are best from 40hz-100hz. 200hz-500hz you are getting into low mids which is the horrible range of bass sounds. it's that rumbly tone that sounds terrible.

the bass drum needs to sound tight as well and not rumbly. you can add some high mids or highs to it to make it cut through the mix better. not too much or it will start to sound "clicky" though. lol

we never had any issues hearing both the bass drum and bass guitar clearly in 10 years of touring doing it this way. we had our own PA and soundman for 75% of the gigs. the really big gigs sound was provided for us by the pros.


If your playing arenas like RHCP, who have sucked since they lost Hillel but Flea is a phenomenal bassist who supports his bandmates rather than stomp all over them, then sure, you run whatever the hell you want. But when money is tight, a $50 SM 57 is gonna get that god of mud tone to the FOH just fine. If there is a phasing issue, do what they do in the studio, move the mic either forward or back until it goes away.

My EQ preferences are my own. If you want to disappear in a band setting, then by all means make that EQ smile. I used to set mine more like a wave leaning hard left, but EQ is in the ear of he who beholdin' the bass. What a bassist should really do is investigate what his guitarists are boosting and cutting and try to fill in the gaps rather than just try to be louder than everyone else in 'HIS' freq spectrum. But that means checking your ego at the door and working to make your band sound better, and who the hell wants to do that? You're up there to look and sound cool and to hell with those other guys, right?

To the OP, have you figured out that this is the worst place on the interwebs to ask for advice on anything pertaining to bass? If you really want to make sure you sound good, get out and go see some local bands. When you hear a dude or chic just killing it with a great tone, go up after the show and ask what they're running. Almost any bassist is more than willing to talk tech about their gear and give a new guy some pointers, but you better ask if they are a TB member first to avoid a bunch of snarky comments.
 
I certainly plan on having an amp, but as I said, perhaps geared more towards simple reliability and power rather than its tone shaping qualities.

Might I suggest a Hartke HA series, a MOSFET if you can find one. Good tone, good DI, great tone shaping, blendable tube and solid state preamp, EQ that can be disabled, and they are pretty cheap and built like tanks. I had one for several years and it never let me down. Just a suggestion but I'm sure every other TB member has a different opinion, but Larry Hartke is a member here and a super great guy.
 
levis76, I like your kind of direct gear advice! Thank you, sir. Despite the war of bassman vs soundman that has erupted, my real distinction was whether it was worth the $$ for a top of the line amp (with it's own preamp) vs my choice of preamp and a reliable (tough, can be bought used) less expensive, watt machine. Your opinion?
I kinda liked it when I GOT more info than I bargained for, though... I didn't expect one person to have the "right" answer.
fnord!
 
If your playing arenas like RHCP, who have sucked since they lost Hillel but Flea is a phenomenal bassist who supports his bandmates rather than stomp all over them, then sure, you run whatever the hell you want. But when money is tight, a $50 SM 57 is gonna get that god of mud tone to the FOH just fine. If there is a phasing issue, do what they do in the studio, move the mic either forward or back until it goes away.

My EQ preferences are my own. If you want to disappear in a band setting, then by all means make that EQ smile. I used to set mine more like a wave leaning hard left, but EQ is in the ear of he who beholdin' the bass. What a bassist should really do is investigate what his guitarists are boosting and cutting and try to fill in the gaps rather than just try to be louder than everyone else in 'HIS' freq spectrum. But that means checking your ego at the door and working to make your band sound better, and who the hell wants to do that? You're up there to look and sound cool and to hell with those other guys, right?

To the OP, have you figured out that this is the worst place on the interwebs to ask for advice on anything pertaining to bass? If you really want to make sure you sound good, get out and go see some local bands. When you hear a dude or chic just killing it with a great tone, go up after the show and ask what they're running. Almost any bassist is more than willing to talk tech about their gear and give a new guy some pointers, but you better ask if they are a TB member first to avoid a bunch of snarky comments.


well you lost credibility as soon as you said the rhcp haven't been any good since they lost hillel slovak.

john frusciante is probably the best guitarist i've ever heard in my life compared to anyone out there.

dude i'm 38 years old. i haven't had an ego in ages. lol
 
I dont understand what this thread was supposed to achieve. You already gathered there is no one way to operate a stage.

I use a fairly neutral tone on my amplification and vary it with fingers and pedals. Post EQ DI or mic has always passed muster without complaint.
 
the 8x10 goes down to 40hz.

No it does not.............

The "useable" low end says it goes down to 40hz, BUT it is at -10db. It is also a sealed cab - hence not known for it's low end extension.

That means it is HALF as loud as other frequencies at that point, and would require a power boost of 10X to get it back to the same level of the rest of the frequencies.

If you really think that bass sounds best in the 40-100hz region, you should be only playing with subwoofers, not full range cabs.
 
I've offered the OP what advice I have to offer from my limited experience playing live in dive bars and dingy clubs.

I'm going to pull out of this thread now. I refuse to continue to read the condescending garbage being perpetuated by the ignorant and closed minded.

I say good day, and good luck.
 
Now that the bullets (bombs!) have quit flying, I must respond that believe it or not, I DID learn from this thread...
1st, bassman + soundman= angry/snarky (hey it's nobody's fault, merely fate)
2nd Learned alot from the snarky war of words-- people giving a sh#t, how refreshing!
3rd Look at posts: 12,15,16,43,46,47,50,52,82,and 88! Grasshopper grew from these posts.
4th AND Most Important, I learned that for a newb, I might be on to something... The Swiss and Norwegians are pretty no nonsense; if they think I'm right, who the hell I am I to argue.

I will be investing my dollars in my cab and pre amp. I will buy a no nonsense watt box for my amp. If it sounds like crap, then, I'll save up for a "tone" amp head. I think I might be able to put together a baddass rig for under $500.
thanks for all the advice tb brothers,
fnord!
 
I'm not going to get into a long argument here. That's not what the OP needs. However........

Have you ever run sound? I would argue that you haven't. Again, often "your tone" may sound amazing by itself. But it could sound like crap in a mix. It is a lot of complicated physics that we need not get into here. Also, I can always ADD more bass to your tone. But I can't ADD mids and highs if they aren't there. So, if you send me rumbly mud from your amp, I am going to try to talk it out with you. You will have two choices. Either you can clean up what you are sending me from your amp, or you can plug into my DI box.

Also, your assertion that using the DI out of the amp "always" sounds better than a mic is pure crap, and ridiculous. I have actually used an SM57 on an Ampeg SVT rig with an 8-10 cab and it sounded amazing out front (with the bass and rig properly EQed of course).

I have mixed literally hundreds of acts of every genre in every kind of venue you can imagine.

That's about as far down this road as I am willing to go because our arguing serves no purpose for the OP. But the point is that your panties getting in a wad and use of the word "always" are both useless. There is NO ALWAYS in live music. I'm sure if you got the chip off your shoulder and TALKED to the sound guy like he is NOT some kind of idiot whipping boy put there to cater to your every whim, you might actually GET SOMEWHERE with him. :eyebrow:

THIS ^^^ is why i NEVER ever have full conversations with sound men. Only thing I ever do in the presence of the soundmen is smile my fool on the Hill smile my hand in my pants do a little Jiggly dance and nod my head until he goes away LOL!
the reason for this is simple… I have absolutely zero control over what he's going to put into the FOH and I have learned from experience that trying to influence him heavily will just get him this identifiable soundman crappy attitude and I will be guaranteed to sound like crap for the entire night throughout the hall!
 
THIS ^^^ is why i NEVER ever have full conversations with sound men. Only thing I ever do in the presence of the soundmen is smile my fool on the Hill smile my hand in my pants do a little Jiggly dance and nod my head until he goes away LOL!
the reason for this is simple… I have absolutely zero control over what he's going to put into the FOH and I have learned from experience that trying to influence him heavily will just get him this identifiable soundman crappy attitude and I will be guaranteed to sound like crap for the entire night throughout the hall!

And you think this attitude will turn out any better? Real (ie. pro) sound guys are a bit more observant than you give them credit for... most can read right through this act and read the real you.

If you act more like a team player and less like a victim, you might find that most sound guys will try pretty hard if they think there's any hope of a better end result, but if you act like a shut down snarky dude, they are likely to chalk it up to "not worth the effort" and move on to more productive items.

Just a hint, based on many years in the touring trenches.
 
levis76, I like your kind of direct gear advice! Thank you, sir. Despite the war of bassman vs soundman that has erupted, my real distinction was whether it was worth the $$ for a top of the line amp (with it's own preamp) vs my choice of preamp and a reliable (tough, can be bought used) less expensive, watt machine. Your opinion?
I kinda liked it when I GOT more info than I bargained for, though... I didn't expect one person to have the "right" answer.
fnord!

I like the preamp plus watt machine as you call it. In an odd way, it's simply a matter of how you choose to fold the sheet metal. However, conceptually I like working with modular parts that can be combined and interchanged in novel ways.

If equalizing and setting the tone were the same thing, Tech21NYC would sell only one preamp with just a treble, mid, and bass knob, and Jule would be building solid state channel strips.

Cooperation starts when both sides approach with an open mind.
 
it's total BS dude. your bass will never sound as good going straight through a DI box as it will coming out of the DI on the back of your amp head.

also putting mic in front of a bass cab never really sounds as good as using the DI out on your amp head.

These two statments are very broad and not always true. Club acoustics are not that straight forward. What you here on stage and what the people 30 feet away here are two completely differrent things, whether you're just playing out of your amp or going through the FOH mix.

I'm not defending the all house DI or nothing solution, I'm just pointing out that room conditions vary. I've got a place that gives me a mic and uses my DI feed. I love that option.
 

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