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Amp "tone" unimportant when using di?

#21
For me, it's much, much more of a visceral thing. I just CANNOT reconcile myself to the idea of all-DI, all IEM, all FOH sound. I get it, low stage volume, happy sound guy, and the bingo hall never heard cleaner Beach Boys covers... :hiding:

Seriously though, I crave the sound and feel of amplifiers pushing speakers. Even at low volumes, it beats the s*** out of headphones. That's why I NEVER practice on headphones, even though I've got a decent set. It's just NOT the same, and NOT my thing. :)
 
#22
two fingers said:
"Preferred mode" is a relative term. (By the way, welcome to TalkBass!) A REDDI and a Sansamp are literally preamps. The sound board knows no difference whatsoever between hooking up one of those and running from the back of your bass head. So don't get too caught up in a DI being the only way.
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Also, it needs mentioning that "DI" is a technique, not a piece of gear.

You are "DIing" when you run a cable straight from your bass into the instrument input of your interface, which for my money is exactly what you should be doing in the digital studio, and treating the track upstream with plugins.

Put on the cans and pay attention to getting the least defective raw transduction of the performance you can. If you have to be heard by other musicians, just plug in your XLR pre-effects out from your amp into the interface/mixer.

People refuse to stop being hung up on superfluous outboard hardware. This is purely psychological.

I've had this discussion so many times with people who just can't get unmired from the last century, and their objections never make any logical sense.
 
#23
majortoby said:
Sorry, NOT bending on this one.

I didn't spend all this time working to determine my ideal tone just to have my whole rig neutered by a $15 Behringer DI box.
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I can't tell you how many times I have encountered guys who have "perfected their ideal tone" only to have it sound like utter garbage in a mix in certain rooms. Physics DEMAND that you bend. Not every room reacts the same to the same frequencies. And your being hard headed about it will ensure that your band will not sound as good as it can every single show. Some places "your ideal tone" will be amazing. Some places THE EXACT SAME TONE will have the sound guy trying to polish a turd. (Hint: It can't be done.)

Live sound is a lot like being married. You can EITHER be right OR happy, but not both. Only in this case, while YOU are on stage being "right" it is the SOUND GUY that has to be unhappy trying to squeeze your garbage (in some cases) into a mix.

What sounds like the left hand of God on a twenty foot Steinway coming through your amp probably sounds like poo coming through 4 18s at 3500W each. What on Earth makes you think that the same frequencies will sound exactly the same through your rig and the FOH? (Another hint: They don't)

"NOT bend" indeed. Glad I don't have to work with you. :rollno:
 
#26
I'm a bassist (29 years), and a sound man (14 years), so I hear/feel this thread from both sides.

Be nice to your sound man and you'll get good sound, assuming he has talent. Be stubborn and a diva and be sure your sound won't get any attention.

My favorite method is a mic and a straight DI off the bass blended. Of course I only use high quality mics and DI's.

My least favorite method is the post eq di off of an amp. I never use this unless the bassist insists on it.
The EQ settings on your amps head are reacting with your speaker cabinet, so it just may not sound as good FOH as you think it does from your cab.

A mic and a straight DI blend will yield awesome results and make just about everybody happy
 
#30
prd004 said:
I'm a bassist (29 years), and a sound man (14 years), so I hear/feel this thread from both sides.

Be nice to your sound man and you'll get good sound, assuming he has talent. Be stubborn and a diva and be sure your sound won't get any attention.

My favorite method is a mic and a straight DI off the bass blended. Of course I only use high quality mics and DI's.

My least favorite method is the post eq di off of an amp. I never use this unless the bassist insists on it.
The EQ settings on your amps head are reacting with your speaker cabinet, so it just may not sound as good FOH as you think it does from your cab.

A mic and a straight DI blend will yield awesome results and make just about everybody happy
Click to expand...

I apologize for being "snarky". But if you really understood sound you would understand the statement in bold above. That is what I was trying to say (only not so touchy feely about it). What is coming out of your rig is NOT what is coming out of the FOH. Simple as that. So, you might think that your SVT through a SEALED 8-10 (with no tweeter, no ports, and specifically designed to reproduce more low mids and not so much of the other frequency ranges) makes you sound like a rock god. The design of the cab is actually "filtering" your tone in a way (granted, in a way that usually sound pretty freaking great). But that SAME EQ SETTING through your line out sent to huge, ported, 3500W 18s out front, complete with a crossover sending ALL of your mids and highs to HUGE speakers designed to handle them very well, will sound virtually NOTHING like what you hear on stage. It is actually quite simple if you think about it.

Again, sorry for my sarcastic writing style. It is quite often misinterpreted as my being angry or condescending. I'm not.

Here are some smiley doohickeys to make everyone feel better. :D:smug:;):cool::hyper::bassist::p

:hiding:
 
#31
Had you actually read my entire post, you would have seen that I actually proposed sending a DI signal on to FOH on my own.

The disconnect here is that you interpreted my refusal to bend as a refusal to acknowledge that what comes out my amp is not what will work for FOH.

What I was ACTUALLY saying was that I refuse to defer to someone else's DI devices over my own. I take no issue with sending a signal to the PA, but it will be sent from MY DI. That way, I have a better idea of just what the end result is going to end up being. After all, I still take personal pride in trying to deliver the best bass tone possible.

"The sound guy can use a DI signal I provide, a mic signal I provide, or I can turn up"

So what I'm saying is: I can provide a DI signal, a mic signal, or play louder. However, I will not simply have someone march up with their little black crapbox and allow it to reduce my signal to pure trash simply because they want to use their box. If that really makes me so atrocious and juvenile, then I am a proud, and ardent juvenile who gladly disregards the notion that my stance automatically makes me a mouth breathing cavedweller with no understanding that a 3-way PA =/= a bass cab.
 
#32
fnordlyone said:
Fnord, the newb, trying to learn. I'm researching for my first rig and play rock 5 string. There's a lot to absorb, but I think I'm starting to wrap my head around this techno mumbo jumbo. Tell me how wrong I am and why!
A good DI (REDDI, Sansamp, etc) is the preferred mode of shaping tone/sound. Before that it's the fingers, strings and wood, then the pickups. There appears to be no reason to buy amp heads that have built in pre amps, di's, eq's, or really any such knobs, since that's Sansamp's job. Hence, it is foolish to spend tons of money on an amp with such features. What one really needs is a reliable Watt generator to push the cabs (merely an electrical transference box), nothing fancy.
Please advise, vets.
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Well, if you're going straight to the board you probably don't even need anything but a DI, especially if your bass has active EQ. In my acoustic trio, I just use a Radial J48 and that's it. I let the preamp in my bass shape the tone.

A lot of folks do use something like the SABDDI or VT Bass into a power amp then into a cab, and that works just fine. I believe it's more convenient to have a full-featured amp with EQ on board just to keep it simple. Bass -> amp -> cab. That's it. Also, having an amp with on-board EQ makes it easier to EQ to the room.

Most amps these days now have a decent on-board DI, so that makes going to the board while having a stage rig even easier. Going with a separate preamp and power amp just makes that much more gear you have to haul and set up. If you want to lug all that and mess with it, that's fine. Over the years I've tried to reduce the number of things I have to futz with. I don't think there are any separates that would sound significantly better than my MBF800/CN212 rig, although I know where there's a pristine used MPP-1 that's tempting me.
 
#33
majortoby said:
So what I'm saying is: I can provide a DI signal, a mic signal, or play louder. However, I will not simply have someone march up with their little black crapbox and allow it to reduce my signal to pure trash simply because they want to use their box.
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I'm with you. When the soundman comes up with his B-word DI, there's no way we're using it when I have a J48 and a JDI in my gig bag.
 
#34
Ha! I like you man. And, yes, I COMPLETELY misunderstood what you were saying. I didn't realize that what you were refusing to bend on was WHICH DI, not whether or not to use one in certain situations.

I stand corrected and sincerely apologize.

OP, let this be a lesson to you! (I'm not really sure what you are supposed to learn from it, but dang it, learn something. If nothing else, keep in mind that cavedweller is one word. Because I had no idea.)

Either way..... carry on.
 
#40
JimmyM said:
Happy birthday, you...um...er....

Sheesh, what's the fun of you being officially old if we can't abuse you over it?
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I've put my family and friends on notice. BTW, for those of you gainfully employed, I'm now receiving part of your paycheck, and you'll be paying my medical bills. Finally, after 40+ years of paying for all the old farts who've gone before.
 

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