AMPEG QC

[haujobb]

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As far as stuffing which comes out, that is obviously not supposed to happen, and, as the other poster said, could be due to a fastener not holding correctly, or a piece which was not held together properly by the "net" that is on the material surface.
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So you are admitting that this is a problem?

 

[Mon Rominee]

He's not admitting anything beyond there being a possibility that there was a fastenner or material failure. I would have thought that was pretty clear. You think Ampeg makes the batting on site, or do you think it comes in bulk, and is cut to size and installed from huge rolls? I'd bet dollar to donuts it's the latter.

Thing is, everyone wants 100% never gonna fail anything...and that is just not at all realistic. You'd have to have one QA person that would have to inspect every piece, every square inch of tolex, every speaker, etc, or hire 1000 seperate QA persons, one for each part lot, and neither is very cost effective nor plausible...you'd never even get a cab built. You insect a percentage of a lot, and accept it from outside vendors most times.

If we're talking about a fastenner that happens to be a staple, heaven forbid the operator didn't check every staple for proper install, what with them being buried out of sight in the batting.

And don't get me started on the trials and woes of the shipping business. It's ridiculous to think Ampeg would ship a dead unit out of the factory. Be real. If it pased a QC check stamp or checklist and it was in fact dead, that QC operator wouldbe handed his ass. There's your accountability, and it would prolly never happen again, so to say it's not unheard of and/or commonplace as a fault directly of Ampeg is just plain deluded. You cry for someone's head? How about the minimum wage kid at GC who signed in the stuff and didn't check all the product for damage within the 24 hour claim period with UPS or FedEx....

I don't mean to sound huffy, but let's be real for half a second. It happens. I have done QC/ QA work for 10+ years, and ou just simply cannot catch everything. Hell, it's not even Jerrold's job to catch, I bet. And these issues, obviously, are what warranty is for.

 

[specplyrz]

He's not admitting anything beyond there being a possibility that there was a fastenner or material failure. I would have thought that was pretty clear. You think Ampeg makes the batting on site, or do you think it comes in bulk, and is cut to size and installed from huge rlls? I'd bet dollar to donuts it's the latter.

Thing is, everyone wants 100% never gonna fail anything...and that is just not at all realistic. You'd have to have one QA person that would have to inspect every piece, every square inch of tolex, every speaker, etc, or hire 1000 seperate QA persons and neither is very cost effective nor plausible...you'd never even get a cab built.

If we're talking about a fastenner that happens to be a staple, heaven forbid the operator didn't check every staple for proper install, what with them being buried out of sight in the batting.

I don't mean to sound huffy, but let's be real for half a second. It happens. I have done QC/ QA work for 10+ years, and ou just simply cannot catch everything. And that, obviously, is what warranty is for.

Thank you for your input on this Mon Rominee. It's interesting to hear your perspective on this. I am the person who had "batting" hanging down from not being properly secured in the second chamber of my 810e. It was resting on the top of a speaker frame. And there were spots left uncoverd (bare) where sound could easily be deflected back to the speakers. I covered them all. It took a 24"x24" sheet of matting to do this, cut in various pieces. Oh, and multipal speaker securing screws striped out in the wood.

Now let me talk about the highlighted part of your statement. When I pay 1000.00 for a speaker bottom, it BETTER be looked over every speaker, tolex, damping. I expect this and paid for it. Also, I have not one, but two different people who signed a tag stating this bottom was fully tested, checked and packed. Well, someone missed somthing I guess. Yes it happens, but to so many newly aquired, different products from the same manufacture in 6 months? QC needs a tune up.

I applaud Mr. Tiers for comming on this forum to debate and explain Ampeg's position. At least we have a conduit to Ampeg through him. As for UPS...don't start me ...If any of you wan't to see a box and the Hartke 810 speaker bottom that was destroyed ..just pm me your email address. I'll send you the pics.

 

[haujobb]

He's not admitting anything beyond there being a possibility that there was a fastener or material failure. I would have thought that was pretty clear.

Fair enough, but what is Ampeg going to do to make sure that this doesn't continue to happen? Are they going to use more staples? Bigger staples that will bite into the wood better? Higher quality staples in general?

I understand that there are things that Ampeg cannot be accountable for, but there are also trivial things that the consumer just expects from a company.

 

[Mon Rominee]

Fair enough, but what is Ampeg going to do to make sure that this doesn't continue to happen? Are they going to use more staples? Bigger staples that will bite into the wood better? Higher quality staples in general?

I would imagine there are steps that are / will be taken, but there is no taking them until they are aware....as in enough complaints directly to them that would qualify it as an issue. A random complaint on a message board will not prompt a reaction... not saying i's right, but that is a fair assumption.

I do love this site as a resource, and a heads up to potential good and potential bad run the industry wide....lots of eyes on lots of cool gear all over the world. But we do have to serperate it from industry reality. Knowing what he knws now, I bet some time soon, it just may be addressed as an area of concern / remedy by our resident Ampeg insider.

 

[Mon Rominee]

Thank you for your input on this Mon Rominee. It's interesting to hear your perspective on this. I am the person who had "batting" hanging down from not being properly secured in the second chamber of my 810e. It was resting on the top of a speaker frame. And there were spots left uncoverd (bare) where sound could easily be deflected back to the speakers. I covered them all. It took a 24"x24" sheet of matting to do this, cut in various pieces. Oh, and multipal speaker securing screws striped out in the wood.

Now let me talk about the highlighted part of your statement. When I pay 1000.00 for a speaker bottom, it BETTER be looked over every speaker, tolex, damping. I expect this and paid for it. Also, I have not one, but two different people who signed a tag stating this bottom was fully tested, checked and packed. Well, someone missed somthing I guess. Yes it happens, but to so many newly aquired, different products from the same manufacture in 6 months? QC needs a tune up.

I applaud Mr. Tiers for comming on this forum to debate and explain Ampeg's position. At least we have a conduit to Ampeg through him. As for UPS...don't start me ...If any of you wan't to see a box and the Hartke 810 speaker bottom that was destroyed ..just pm me your email address. I'll send you the pics.

That's cool. In NO WAY whatsoever am I condoning / explaining away/ justifying errors in a product. Not at all, I've made a living making sure that hasn't happenned in products I've tested... I'm just saying it does happen. In regards to the batting hanging down, I simply couldn't explain why...not having seen it. Was there a staple lose in the cab? I wonder. But the "missing" bare areas, that has been explained by Jerrold as to why they weren't. They weren't necessary for the sound / goal / design they were after. Stripped screws? Definitely an issue. BUT, you simply can't expect that to be detected upon a visual inspection...oftentimes, a QC inspection could be just that...a visual checklist. A screw doesn't "look" stripped or not, it just looks like a screw.

Again, I speak not for Ampeg, and know nothing of their QC protocol, but just an example of things I've encountered in the field...that stripped screw is an operator error, and once again, having enough complaints issued to Ampeg directly will assuredly lead to a correction....but they have no reason to fix what they are not even aware is a problem....I hate to say it, but you can give an employee the best tool for the job and sometimes things can still go awry. Sure it sucks...

I wasn't calling anyone out, but it sure seems like you had alot of issues. Upon each instance, did you contact Ampeg directly to address the issue, or did you just bring the product to the place of purchase? If it was the latter, that is where the issue ended. I HIGHLY doubt GC was gonna go out of their way to report a secific issue beyond "dead" or "dented"... You get a replacement, GC gets a credit, Ampeg refurbishes a unit...(I'm not bashing GC, just using a p.o.r., and reality situation)

I hope I haven't talked out the bvious too much, just trying to play devils advocate, as I know of what speak. I wish you the best of luck with your future amp, and hope it works out for you.

Mon

 

[specplyrz]

That's cool. In NO WAY whatsoever am I condoning / explaining away/ justifying errors in a product. Not at all, I've made a living making sure that hasn't happenned in products I've tested... I'm just saying it does happen. In regards to the batting hanging down, I simply couldn't explain why...not having seen it. Was there a staple lose in the cab? I wonder. But the "missing" bare areas, that has been explained by Jerrold as to why they weren't. They weren't necessary for the sound / goal / design they were after. Stripped screws? Definitely an issue. BUT, you simply can't expect that to be detected upon a visual inspection...oftentimes, a QC inspection could be just that...a visual checklist. A screw doesn't "look" stripped or not, it just looks like a screw.

Again, I speak not for Ampeg, and know nothing of their QC protocol, but just an example of things I've encountered in the field...that stripped screw is an operator error, and once again, having enough complaints issued to Ampeg directly will assuredly lead to a correction....but they have no reason to fix what they are not even aware is a problem....I hate to say it, but you can give an employee the best tool for the job and sometimes things can still go awry. Sure it sucks...

I wasn't calling anyone out, but it sure seems like you had alot of issues. Upon each instance, did you contact Ampeg directly to address the issue, or did you just bring the product to the place of purchase? If it was the latter, that is where the issue ended. I HIGHLY doubt GC was gonna go out of their way to report a secific issue beyond "dead" or "dented"... You get a replacement, GC gets a credit, Ampeg refurbishes a unit...(I'm not bashing GC, just using a p.o.r., and reality situation)

I hope I haven't talked out the bvious too much, just trying to play devils advocate, as I know of what speak. I wish you the best of luck with your future amp, and hope it works out for you.

Mon

Belive me my friend, they know....I have kept them abreast of everything.

 

[haujobb]

I would imagine there are steps that are / will be taken, but there is no taking them until they are aware....as in enough complaints directly to them that would qualify it as an issue. A random complaint on a message board will not prompt a reaction... not saying i's right, but that is a fair assumption.

I do love this site as a resource, and a heads up to potential good and potential bad run the industry wide....lots of eyes on lots of cool gear all over the world. But we do have to serperate it from industry reality. Knowing what he knws now, I bet some time soon, it just may be addressed as an area of concern / remedy by our resident Ampeg insider.

Lots of good points here, hopefully that is an isolated incident, and if not, hopefully Ampeg does have the same views that you express here.

 

[DaveMcLain]

I fixed the cold solder joints myself on my Ampeg gear that was causing problems but I didn't fix my power amp when the rectifier burned up because of a poor connection, I sent it in for that repair. The SLM guys got it fixed as good as new pretty quickly and the cost was quite reasonable so I cannot complain about their service at all, it was top notch.