I play rickenbacker 4001->RBI->dbx166->DI->stewart 1.2 ->(2) aguilar gs112s.
our sound guy is talking about going to headphones someday.
our sound guy is talking about going to headphones someday.
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Another Church players topic-Post: amplification
- Thread starter dunamis
- Start date
In a Pearson 3 space light case:
ART Tube PAC > ART Tube EQ (both retubed) >
CRATE SPA300 1 space amp > 2 EA Wizzy cabinets placed behind the drum curtain.
Bottom cabinet is set at a fairly low medium volume and mic'd with an Audix D-4 - really nice EA sound to the PA. The top cabinet is pushed just a little in order to be the backline monitor for bass player and drummer. This arrangement lets the sound guys really control the congregational volume while preserving the EA tone.
I'll take pictures of this sometime.
Jay
ART Tube PAC > ART Tube EQ (both retubed) >
CRATE SPA300 1 space amp > 2 EA Wizzy cabinets placed behind the drum curtain.
Bottom cabinet is set at a fairly low medium volume and mic'd with an Audix D-4 - really nice EA sound to the PA. The top cabinet is pushed just a little in order to be the backline monitor for bass player and drummer. This arrangement lets the sound guys really control the congregational volume while preserving the EA tone.
I'll take pictures of this sometime.
Jay
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Our church meets in a convention center lecture hall. It seats 461 and is about 5700 square feet. It has a three story ceiling that slopes down to two stories high in the back.
I usually just use my Eden CXC-110 combo by itself. If I turn the amp up past 4, I can hear the bass off the back walls very clearly. I usually play around 2 or 3 on the master, just enough to hear myself well among the other musicians in the monitors. The sound tech takes a post-eq line out to the sound system.
Although the other worship team musicians play into the monitors and don't use an amp, I always use an amp - the Eden. It's great! I feel strongly that my sound should be the amp, and not just a DI monitor sound.
When we have a kit drummer, it's an electronic drum kit. Sometimes we have a djembe or congas, and of course those are acoustic and are miked. Otherwise, everyone's in the monitors. I know I'd bring some of the big stuff out if the other musicians played with amplification.
If I ever had a sound tech tell me I had to do the in-ear system, or just play through monitors, I'd go elsewhere to play. Church, 'secular', wherever. My sound is bass, technique, and amp- not the first two plus some sound guy's notion of what bass should sound like. I'm not digging the current trend toward in-ear.
Our church meets in a convention center lecture hall. It seats 461 and is about 5700 square feet. It has a three story ceiling that slopes down to two stories high in the back.
I usually just use my Eden CXC-110 combo by itself. If I turn the amp up past 4, I can hear the bass off the back walls very clearly. I usually play around 2 or 3 on the master, just enough to hear myself well among the other musicians in the monitors. The sound tech takes a post-eq line out to the sound system.
Although the other worship team musicians play into the monitors and don't use an amp, I always use an amp - the Eden. It's great! I feel strongly that my sound should be the amp, and not just a DI monitor sound.
When we have a kit drummer, it's an electronic drum kit. Sometimes we have a djembe or congas, and of course those are acoustic and are miked. Otherwise, everyone's in the monitors. I know I'd bring some of the big stuff out if the other musicians played with amplification.
If I ever had a sound tech tell me I had to do the in-ear system, or just play through monitors, I'd go elsewhere to play. Church, 'secular', wherever. My sound is bass, technique, and amp- not the first two plus some sound guy's notion of what bass should sound like. I'm not digging the current trend toward in-ear.
The rig a bassist uses in church depends on the size of the building. Church buildings, as you know, go from very small to very large. Guys in the large mega churches can use large powerful rigs, but many of us in smaller buildings only need small rigs just loud enough to hear ourselves and maybe enough for the the rest of the band to hear as well, especially when you're in the house mix. If you're NOT in the house mix you can definitely go larger, but be careful not to spill into the vocal mics.
I use a Carvin 2-10 cab with a SWR head and that's more than enough. I also have Hartke 1-15 in the drum cage so the drumer gets real kicking bass, instead of bad tone bass though his monitor. I'll be upgrading the Carvin to Eden or Epifini.
I play with an organ, piano, keyboard, sax and drums.
We are considering going to in-ear monitors to greatly reduce the amount of stage mixing that spills into the house.
I use a Carvin 2-10 cab with a SWR head and that's more than enough. I also have Hartke 1-15 in the drum cage so the drumer gets real kicking bass, instead of bad tone bass though his monitor. I'll be upgrading the Carvin to Eden or Epifini.
I play with an organ, piano, keyboard, sax and drums.
We are considering going to in-ear monitors to greatly reduce the amount of stage mixing that spills into the house.
A lot of worship rigs out there!! For the last couple of years I was amping with an ampeg svp preamp, sansamp in the effect loop for some fur, both of which were feeding a ampeg 1500 poweramp. But I just recieved a brand new Genz-Benz GBE-600 yesterday and will be rocking with it this Sunday!
2 rack spaces rule.
oj
2 rack spaces rule.
oj
as i am getting older and lazier i just decided to go with different speaker set-ups and carry my head and basses gig to gig.
therfore i keep an ampeg 15" at my secular rock band rehearsal space.
i have an identical ampeg 15" cab for church.
and i keep an ampeg 4x10" at my house ready to go for rock gigs. if i ever needed the rock star rig, i just bring one of the 15" cabs along to make a stack.
it may be expensive, but has saved me countless set-ups and load-in/outs having a cab already where i need it.
although i may break down and buy a 2x10", 12" or 15" combo for church, my current church rig is a gk1001 head (way more than i'd need at the biggest church, and my church is small but rocking loud) into an ampeg classic 1x15" cab. this goes DI into the board with my EQ flat.
i have been using my geddy jazz bass, but i 'pulled the trigger' on a musicman stingray 5 today. praise and worship music just demands the 5 string.
therfore i keep an ampeg 15" at my secular rock band rehearsal space.
i have an identical ampeg 15" cab for church.
and i keep an ampeg 4x10" at my house ready to go for rock gigs. if i ever needed the rock star rig, i just bring one of the 15" cabs along to make a stack.
it may be expensive, but has saved me countless set-ups and load-in/outs having a cab already where i need it.
although i may break down and buy a 2x10", 12" or 15" combo for church, my current church rig is a gk1001 head (way more than i'd need at the biggest church, and my church is small but rocking loud) into an ampeg classic 1x15" cab. this goes DI into the board with my EQ flat.
i have been using my geddy jazz bass, but i 'pulled the trigger' on a musicman stingray 5 today. praise and worship music just demands the 5 string.
I have an Ashdown C110-300 combo amp. It's small size makes it really portable, and it works great as a monitor, in the studio, or in small rooms. Our church also uses IEM's, but I hate 'em (guess I'm old fashioned, but I like to hear what the room actually sounds like). I'll stick one in my ear to hear the keys, but I gotta hear the drums live.
The sound guys hate me.
As often as I can (in other words, as often as they let me), I bypass the church system and run my amp through a Trace Elliot 4x10 and horn box, which fills he sanctuary nicely (it seats a little over 2000). I think it's alot cleaner that way, and I get alot crisper response.
Use my little bro's old school Trace AH500x if I need a little more oomph for outdoor stuff.
The sound guys hate me.
As often as I can (in other words, as often as they let me), I bypass the church system and run my amp through a Trace Elliot 4x10 and horn box, which fills he sanctuary nicely (it seats a little over 2000). I think it's alot cleaner that way, and I get alot crisper response.
Use my little bro's old school Trace AH500x if I need a little more oomph for outdoor stuff.
Our church is a converted civic theater. If I had to guess, I'd say that it seats about 500. We have a good sized platform with really high ceilings. Currently I'm using a couple of my 2x10's powered by an SWR Studio 220. I usually run the SWR at about 12 o'clock with all of the eq's mostly flat. That pretty much takes care of the stage volume (depending on which drummer is playing). I'm also running out of the XLR in the back of the amp out to the board.
Ralf
Ralf
I play in a large church and go through a Thunderfunk TFB550, Eden 210XLT cab and DI out of the Tfunk to the board. This gives me my onstage presence and the Subs fills the rest.
Playing a church is no different that playing anywhere else. Use the rig that fits the room. I use my Eden WT500 and two 210XLTs.
In another room, we have a Ampeg SS head and an SVT 410hlf.
I have played ampless with a few different solutions. I don't care for it at all.
In another room, we have a Ampeg SS head and an SVT 410hlf.
I have played ampless with a few different solutions. I don't care for it at all.
Chasarms said:
actually, for me, it kinda is...
high ceiling'd church halls known more for carrying an unamplified voice make for horribly boomy and ridiculously reverby sound.
my first post nonwithstanding, neutral sounding cabs and parametric EQ's are all i carry sometimes. heck, MOST of the time, i just go DI and let the soundman deal w/ the awful room.
i envy your forward looking church staff that rent out "music" halls!
I used to use my Portabass 250 with the Portabass 12, but since some people have gone in-ear, I now just take the head and use it with one of the extra Yamaha 15" monitors. Our FOH is 4 EAW cabs, a bunch of Mackie Power amps, a Mackie mixer (48 channel, I think), and a bunch of rack stuff i don't pay too much attention to.
Smith 6 -> Pre Amp ( I've had an Avalon 737, An Avalon U5, An Alembic F1x & SF2, and an Eden Navigator SOme floated my boat more than others- got one of the discounted Epifani Quests on the way - I like trying new things....) BBE B-Max -> Crest CA-9 -> Pair of Epifani T112 and a pair of Epifani T110's.
I gotta have power.... granted, low notes carry, but I've got to compete with mic'ed drums, the Hammond B3, the 40+ voice choir and a church with no acoustical forethought.
I gotta have power.... granted, low notes carry, but I've got to compete with mic'ed drums, the Hammond B3, the 40+ voice choir and a church with no acoustical forethought.
jokerjkny said:
Aren't you doing just what I suggested? "Use a rig that fits the room."
The likelihood of a bad room, in my experience, is no greater for a church than any other type of room. For every church that meets your description you'll find a gymnasium, hotel ballroom or lodge hall that meets the same. There are many buildings in our downtown area that are just big, rectangle brick buildings that have been hollowed out and converted to pubs. They sound just as you describe. Horrible.
On the other hand, there are many churches built in the last 20-30 years or so that are designed with more of an auditorium look and feel that also happen to play and sound like an auditorium or "music" hall as you describe. Today's churches meet in all sorts of buildings.
I was pointing more to the issue of room size and coverage, rather than managing your sound within the room. You have that issue no matter where you are playing.
we speak the same language, yet say them in our own self-ingratiating ways. 
but i guess i'm generalizing my own experiences, i.e. church vs. those dens of sin aka rock clubs.
but i guess i'm generalizing my own experiences, i.e. church vs. those dens of sin aka rock clubs.
Right now I'm using just my sansamp progr. direct and using monitors. Was using my amp but took it out to do a coffeehouse and played without it the next week and realized the sound was better without it. We play in an alcove type stage area and the less stage volume the better.
the church owns a bass amp for the main room, a GK microbass 1x12, that sounds great for the tiny-ness of the amp, but I hardly ever use it. I usually use my newly acquired Ashdown ABM300 evo II through a Aguilar GS112 (with my lefty warwick thumb 5 b.o. like I mentioned in the other thread). This setup is great sounding, and very easily portable, which is good since I frequently play downstairs in the main room and upstairs with the youth.
I get a great variety of sounds, from grindy rock sounds, to more smooth adult contemporary/soft rock, to more thumpin' funky groove sounds. EQ, Shape, Valve Drive, and Octave are all footswitchable, so it's a breeze to get the tone I need for each song. I just need to get a decent compressor to throw in the FX loop so the valve drive doesn't change the volume so drastically...
Oh yeah, the main room has a decent PA, but really crappy acoustics. Giant 2 storey back wall with no treatment, 2 storey side walls with no treatment, vaulted ceilings, seats maybe 400-500 per service, we could squeeze 600 if we really tried. And cement floors. We have a new creative arts director, though, so he's working on improvements. When we build our next building some time in the next decade, I really hope we pay more attention to acoustics for the sanctuary...
I get a great variety of sounds, from grindy rock sounds, to more smooth adult contemporary/soft rock, to more thumpin' funky groove sounds. EQ, Shape, Valve Drive, and Octave are all footswitchable, so it's a breeze to get the tone I need for each song. I just need to get a decent compressor to throw in the FX loop so the valve drive doesn't change the volume so drastically...
Oh yeah, the main room has a decent PA, but really crappy acoustics. Giant 2 storey back wall with no treatment, 2 storey side walls with no treatment, vaulted ceilings, seats maybe 400-500 per service, we could squeeze 600 if we really tried. And cement floors. We have a new creative arts director, though, so he's working on improvements. When we build our next building some time in the next decade, I really hope we pay more attention to acoustics for the sanctuary...
Of course I'm using a GK 1001RB-II into a Neo 212 and a Neo 112. I have the 112 sitting on a Genesis amp stand tilted back. DI goes to the FOH. I play in a large church and they let me play pretty loud. Sometimes I use an old Aria Pro II SB1000 and sometimes I use a Zon Sonus Custom (borrowed from work). I recently got a Dean Pace Bass that I'm trying to learn how to play so I can use that at church as well.
OK, I'm in......
My rig consists of the following:
Bass: Yamaha RBX 765A 5 String
Head: Kustom GrooveBass 1200
Cabs: SteelSound SSB212
Seismic Audio SA210
Effects: BOSS VF-1
Wireless: AKG WMSDV40 Guitar Bug system
Power Conditioner: Samson PowerBrite Pro 7
Electronics are packed neatly into a Gator 8 space rolling rack w/ a 2 space drawer
Coming soon:
Line 6 LowDown 150 combo
EBS BassIQ envelope filter
My rig consists of the following:
Bass: Yamaha RBX 765A 5 String
Head: Kustom GrooveBass 1200
Cabs: SteelSound SSB212
Seismic Audio SA210
Effects: BOSS VF-1
Wireless: AKG WMSDV40 Guitar Bug system
Power Conditioner: Samson PowerBrite Pro 7
Electronics are packed neatly into a Gator 8 space rolling rack w/ a 2 space drawer
Coming soon:
Line 6 LowDown 150 combo
EBS BassIQ envelope filter
