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Another head/cab thread. Trace Elliot 1x10

Cookies0nDowels

Cookies0nDowels

May 6, 2020
52
175
58
Kerikeri New Zealand
#1
Hi
I own a couple of the Trace Elliot 1x10 cabs (300w RMS 8 omhs) and was looking at a Aguilar Tone hammer 500 (500w into 4 omhs / 250w into 8 omhs) that's come up for sale.
Now, taking into account my lack of knowledge and interest in all thing watty and omhsie, will i damage anything by pairing these ?. Im not looking play particularly loud. Also, the tone hammer has 2 speakon connections on the back and the TE 1 10's also have 2 speakon connections on each.
So what's correct here, amp cable to cab 1, cab 1 cable to cab 2. or amp cable to cab one, amp cable to cab 2. Hope this makes some kind of sense to you guys.
Cheers
 
#2
You can run a single cable from the amp to cab 1 then run from the second speakon on cab 1 into cab 2. I would personally run a cable from each of the amp's speakons to each of the cabs. In the first scenario the cable connected directly to the amp is carrying the full power used by both cabs whereas the second scenario balances the load over both cables. It's a minor point but if the amp has two speakons why not use them?
There is no difference in the load impedance the amp will see and the combined 4 ohm load is fine for the amp. No damage will occur as long as you don't play too loud for the cabs; use your ears for this.
 
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#3
You are in the perfect zone with this arrangement.

500 watts @ 4 Ohms

300 watts @ 8 Ohms (300 RMS)
X 2 cabinets = 4 Ohms (600 RMS)

You have maximum power (Watts) delivering to the correct minimum impedance load (Ohms) with total speaker capability (RMS) in excess of the maximum power output for +/- 20% allowable margin of error (spikes).

I would also use the two speak-on connections straight off the amp, with the two cables, but it is totally cool to go one into the other cabinet, too. (The cables should be as short as possible and the same lengths.)
 
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#7
Redbrangus said:
I guess my quibble is with preaching some weird-beard witchcraft/mythology to a newbie.
Click to expand...

No voodoo that yoodoo here, buddy.

It's better that a newbie learns the best parameters to start with before moving into the strange-brew that you spew in certain situations...

Why have a 10' and a 2' cable in use? Or are 10' Cables cool with you in this application and if so why?

Have at it...
 
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#8
PhatBottomBass1 said:
Why have a 10' and a 2' cable in use? Or are 10' Cables cool with you in this application and if so why?

Have at it...
Click to expand...
I can't imagine what the objection would be to doing that. If you're asserting that the few milliohms difference in resistance between cables of different lengths is of any significance in a circuit with a nominal impedance of 1000's of times that, then I think it is getting into an area that borders on mythology. Or is there some other physical principle in play here that I'm not aware of? I'll admit that's a possibility.
 
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#9
Redbrangus said:
I can't imagine what the objection would be to doing that. If you're asserting that the few milliohms difference in resistance between cables of a different lengths is of any significance in a circuit with a nominal impedance of 1000's of times that, then I think it is getting into an area that borders on mythology. Or is there some other physical principle in play here that I'm not aware of? I'll admit that's a possibility.
Click to expand...

You're the one advising short is good, but until you are getting into long lengths (?) Then it's doesn't matter.

I run into all sorts of technical geniuses on TB. I use two 12 gauge 3' cables commonly available, one into each amp Speak-on connection BECAUSE it will reach both cabs horizontally positioned. I will use the same 3' cables one into the amp and run the other off the through output on the first cabinet BECAUSE the bottom cabinet is to low to reach with a 3' cable vertically stacked. If I were to wish to separate the cabinets on each side of the drummer or the head one place and cabinets in another. I will run the same length cables, but not currently in a position to do it on a regular basis and certainly not over a greater than 20' spread.

I also use a buffer between my 12' instrument cable and the 12' length from my pedalboard to the amp. That is a different subject, but cable lengths do matter as do gauges and construction.

Thank you.
 
#10
PhatBottomBass1 said:
If I were to wish to separate the cabinets on each side of the drummer or the head one place and cabinets in another. I will run the same length cables...
Click to expand...
Just to confirm, you're referring to a situation in which the two cabs are being operated in parallel from the same amplifier channel, yes? And you feel it's somehow advantageous to match the cable lengths between the amp and the two cabs, as in, if one cab needs a 20' cable to reach, the other cable should be matched to that length for some reason? I'm sorry, but I need a further explanation of why this is the preferable practice. Maybe my understanding of how a parallel AC circuit works is faulty... I never have claimed to be any sort of technical genius, as best I can recall. :)
 
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#11
Redbrangus said:
Just to confirm, you're referring to a situation in which the two cabs are being operated in parallel from the same amplifier channel, yes? And you feel it's somehow advantageous to match the cable lengths between the amp and the two cabs, as in, if one cab needs a 20' cable to reach, the other cable should be matched to that length for some reason? I'm sorry, but I need a further explanation of why this is the preferable practice. Maybe my understanding of how a parallel AC circuit works is faulty... I never have claimed to be any sort of technical genius, as best I can recall. :)
Click to expand...

I was describing a potential "20' spread" and that I would (or have) done a 2 x 10' and just set the head behind the drummer and run an instrument cable to the head in that location. Not running one 20' cable to the far side and then a 3' cable to the closer cabinet. I'm a set and forget amp guy not a knob twiddler.

I was advised to keep speaker cables as short as is reasonably possible and that it is preferable to run matching cables. If those people in the professional sound reinforcement industry in Austin, TX guided my upbringing in a hinky manner. I will only say that my amp time in shops has really been limited to general upkeep/cleaning and tightening things up. I have never had a major repair issue with ANY amplification equipment nor blown a speaker.

Your results may vary...
 
#14
I concur with the advise you received to keep the cables short, but I'm skeptical of the concept of keeping the cables the same length. Cable length does indeed contribute to overall resistance (and thus impedance) of the circuit, but the difference between a 2' cable and a 10' cable of the same gauge and construction is so small as to be insignificant, especially if you're using 12 ga. wire. Using an online calculator, 4' of #12 (2' x 2 wires) = about 6 milliohms; 20' of #12 (10' x 2) = about 32 milliohms, or a difference of .026 ohms. That essentially amounts to the equivalent of a rounding error or even a minor variation in wire fabrication. In my mind, that's not something to be overly concerned about.

Of course, this dialogue about resistance is only relevant if that's the reasoning behind the advice to keep the cables the same length. Is that your understanding of the logic involved in invoking this practice?
 
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#16
Wow, cannot believe you guys are quibbling about speaker cable lengths under 20' :)

Electrically - so little difference as to be irrelevant.

Physically - it's a good idea to not have cables all over the floor, if someone can trip over something they will.

Re the OP, sounds like it would be a nice rig and all very well matched. I also would lean towards running 2 cables from the amp, redundancy in output cables is good imo. Although it's also fine to chain the 2nd cab off the first.
 
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#17
Stewie said:
I wouldn’t have a problem with using a 3 footer to one cab, and a 20 to another. The reason you want the speaker cables short is so that your singer won’t trip over them and ruin the jacks
Click to expand...

No, no, it's so they can be put away more quickly into a smaller bag.

At any of the cable lengths discussed, how long they are / differences between them are electrically irrelevant.
 
#18
PhatBottomBass1 said:
I was advised to keep speaker cables as short as is reasonably possible and that it is preferable to run matching cables. If those people in the professional sound reinforcement industry in Austin, TX guided my upbringing in a hinky manner. I will only say that my amp time in shops has really been limited to general upkeep/cleaning and tightening things up. I have never had a major repair issue with ANY amplification equipment nor blown a speaker.

Your results may vary...
Click to expand...

In sound reinforcement matched length cables are maybe important for time-aligned speakers but with the speed of electromagnetic waves in a cable being something like 2/3rds the speed of light I'm not sure how significant it would even then. Is @agedhorse around?

Personally I like matched cables purely because I am obsessive about such things. Matched even down to shade of the shielding and the connectors.
 
#19
ficelles said:
In sound reinforcement matched length cables are maybe important for time-aligned speakers but with the speed of electromagnetic waves in a cable being something like 2/3rds the speed of light I'm not sure how significant it would even then. Is @agedhorse around?

Personally I like matched cables purely because I am obsessive about such things. Matched even down to shade of the shielding and the connectors.
Click to expand...

So how do you feel about 1/4" to Speak-on and which end would you put where? :smug:

I have bought in to the myth that good cables make no difference because all wire is the same and as long as it works its good enough and justify color coding as irrelevant as long as I can remember which cable goes where before I throw the switch. :cigar:
 

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