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Another Shooting

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#101
Dr. Cheese said:
Honestly, if Zimmerman had been pulled out of the car, I am pretty sure the local police would have at least informally leaked that information by now just to keep themselves from looking bad.
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I guess my years of living around the Detroit PD doesn't give me much confidence in the police covering their butts that well or intelligently.

...from the latest article:

When police arrived after the shooting Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose, the back of his head and had grass on the back of his shirt.
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[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#103
I have to admit - In looking for more information about this story I fell into a, what I can only describe as a pit of scared, ignorant and obviously very racist 1st amendment activists on another site discussing the story... Oh... my... god...

There are some sick, ignorant, scared, racists gun owners out there... The 'people' posting on that site (a site that makes me feel like I need to take a really hot shower to wash off the hate) and it makes me really appreciate the level of civility - and intelligent discourse that we have here at TB.

Now - I need to go find a power washer and scrape off the ignorant, racist cracker crumbs from my eyeballs... Good lord...
 
#106
aborgman said:
We at this point don't know that he "got out of the car".

He may have been forcibly pulled from the car.

Or he may have jumped out brandishing his pistol.

We just don't know at this point.
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True. It has not been specifically stated. But just like it seems reasonable to assume his car had gas in its tank, and four wheels, it seems reasonable to assume the 140 pound victim did not jump into his car and pull his 200 pound body out.
Yes, there is a degree of uncertainty. But how worried would you be if you had to bet your life?
 
#108
aborgman said:
NOT police instructions. 911 dispatcher instructions.

...and if Martin isn't walking down the road, nothing happens.

If a woman walks naked through a bad neighborhood and gets raped - she didn't "create" the situation.
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I don't know if Florida is different than MA but when you call 911 you are redirected to the police in the are you call from, so the dispatcher would an officer.
 
#109
aborgman said:
More worried than you might imagine.

From the latest Orlando Sentinel article:

"When police arrived after the shooting Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose, the back of his head and had grass on the back of his shirt."
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Would it be accurate that you think that Zimmerman was the victim in this scenario, given the facts that we currently have?
 
#111
Not for nothing but since when did police in Florida get a reputation for racial sensitivity and equality that would call for us taking their word for it that Zimmerman was hurt at all? It's not like there isn't a history of white police officers down souf' protecting other white people that hurt, lynch, kill black folk.. If there's any benefit of the doubt, mine goes to the 140 pound kid doing nothing but walking back home from a store to watch the rest of the All Star game.. The overzealous local crime watch guy with the itchy trigger finger can go to hell IMO..
 
#112
"George Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting of Trayvon Martin, 17, who was walking home from a convenience store in Sanford, Fla., near Orlando. Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner's association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role.

The meeting was attended by Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, the detective assigned to the investigation and an unnamed member of the city council, according to the homeowner’s association newsletter. The chief couldn't immediately be reached for comment about the complaints."
 
#114
AfroCubanFunkMa said:
"George Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting of Trayvon Martin, 17, who was walking home from a convenience store in Sanford, Fla., near Orlando. Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner's association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role.

The meeting was attended by Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, the detective assigned to the investigation and an unnamed member of the city council, according to the homeowner’s association newsletter. The chief couldn't immediately be reached for comment about the complaints."
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with the hands off approach the PD seem to be taking with this guy on multiple incidents, it sounds as if the cops like having a vigilante.
 
#117
aborgman said:
No.

It would be accurate to say that I think that given the facts that we currently have we cannot determine one way or the other which party initiated physical contact.
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We do not know who threw the first punch...
But we do know Z saw the now dead boy first, he called the cops and he followed the boy.
We know the boy was only out to buy candy and a soft drink and on his way back home to finish watching the game with his family.
We know Z has a history of aggressive behaviour.

No, I still do NOT know for certain how it developed. But if it moves like a duck, sounds like a duck, etc...

If Z stays in his car, nothing would happen.
In the hypothetical case that the boy notices Z following him and decided to confront him aggressively... all Z had to do is drive away.
If the pair engaged, it is without question because Z allowed it.
Z was advised not to engage.

Z provoked the situation that led to the shooting.
 
#118
mcnach said:
We do not know who threw the first punch...
But we do know Z saw the now dead boy first, he called the cops and he followed the boy.
We know the boy was only out to buy candy and a soft drink and on his way back home to finish watching the game with his family.
We know Z has a history of aggressive behaviour.

No, I still do NOT know for certain how it developed. But if it moves like a duck, sounds like a duck, etc...

If Z stays in his car, nothing would happen.
In the hypothetical case that the boy notices Z following him and decided to confront him aggressively... all Z had to do is drive away.
If the pair engaged, it is without question because Z allowed it.
Z was advised not to engage.

Z provoked the situation that led to the shooting.
Click to expand...

+100

The notion that Martin was so agressive that he jumped into a moving car stretches credulity. It's possible, but pretty unlikely. I get that Aborgman likes to argue the possibilities, but the realistically, this is very likely to have been the case that Zimmerman sought Martin out and percipitated the conflict.
 
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