Thank you, thank you. It's about time the truth came out.
Link Removed
Yes he's good, but.... but ....... there's just a bit too many notes. Do fix that please, thank you.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Anyone else out there -Not- a Huge Jaco Fan??
- Thread starter sgtdemeo
- Start date
- Status
Thank you, thank you. It's about time the truth came out.
Link Removed
Yes he's good, but.... but ....... there's just a bit too many notes. Do fix that please, thank you.
- Jun 25, 2007
- 4,531
- 135
- 63
- Disclosures
- Artist:TC Electronic RH450 bass system (original test-pilot)
+1 The music Censors should go edit out a few notes from Jaco's work (and Mozart's) to dumb it down for the masses.
I'm not a fan at all. Everything I've sampled so far comes off as grooveless wanking on harmonics. Just my opinion, but like the OP, I've been trying real hard to find what all the hype is about. I just haven't found a single song that appealed to me, much less impressed me.
CNLTB got it the closest, it was supposed to be funny.
But again, to attack the message, attack the messenger.
John Wentizen and bassrique got it and knocked it out of the park.
Now that's funny.
But again, to attack the message, attack the messenger.
John Wentizen and bassrique got it and knocked it out of the park.
Now that's funny.
I think Jaco's been hurt by all the hype - it's like going to see a really good movie that you've already heard too much about, so you don't really enjoy the freshness of it.
Back in the 70's, it was a bit different. I saw Jaco several times, and can't say that I would have run around telling everybody I knew to go see Weather Report just because Jaco was such a great bassist. And I don't think it's about him "being definitely first" at doing certain things (which he may or may not have been) - but music was changing at the time, and he was part of that change and great at what he did inside Weather Report.
Today, I'm not a huge fan of WR's Birdland, but 30 years ago, I was really into it.
Jaco is not a bassist whose lines and grooves stay in my mind and haunt me in the middle of the night and make me want to get up and play bass - no sirree. But he was a great performer (but then, I thought WR was teh bomb back then, and I liked the Bob Weir band in its various incarnations, too, but not nearly as much as I liked WR. ) At the time, WR seemed ground-breaking, but me, personally - I never got into the bass solo work, even though I knew it was technically good. OTOH, I thought then that he was fascinating in his approach and I still think so.
So not a fan, not an aficionado, but certainly, I think the guy was way cool and I guess I sort of agree with Wikipedia:
...more of a tunesmith and producer than a bass player.
I didn't realize until today that he didn't even play bass on Holiday for Pans, if Wikipedia is to be believed.
Back in the 70's, it was a bit different. I saw Jaco several times, and can't say that I would have run around telling everybody I knew to go see Weather Report just because Jaco was such a great bassist. And I don't think it's about him "being definitely first" at doing certain things (which he may or may not have been) - but music was changing at the time, and he was part of that change and great at what he did inside Weather Report.
Today, I'm not a huge fan of WR's Birdland, but 30 years ago, I was really into it.
Jaco is not a bassist whose lines and grooves stay in my mind and haunt me in the middle of the night and make me want to get up and play bass - no sirree. But he was a great performer (but then, I thought WR was teh bomb back then, and I liked the Bob Weir band in its various incarnations, too, but not nearly as much as I liked WR. ) At the time, WR seemed ground-breaking, but me, personally - I never got into the bass solo work, even though I knew it was technically good. OTOH, I thought then that he was fascinating in his approach and I still think so.
So not a fan, not an aficionado, but certainly, I think the guy was way cool and I guess I sort of agree with Wikipedia:
...more of a tunesmith and producer than a bass player.
I didn't realize until today that he didn't even play bass on Holiday for Pans, if Wikipedia is to be believed.
Grooveless?
His groove was way deep. It may not be dance music, but is groove just reduced to that?
Besides, given the context of what he was doing, he explored the infinite possibilites of what can be done on the bass. Not everyone cares to hear that stuff, but "grooveless wanking"? He can groove but he play like a melodic horn player, too.
Not that many peole doing that at the time. And though the electric has definitely lends itself to be a "groove machine", it doesn't always have to be. It DOES have a legitimate expressive soloistic voice, even if it's not as popular as, well, a band playing pop music. Jaco gave that legitimacy.
And really, I don't think ANYONE'S talent huge talent diminishes what anyone else has to offer. Sure, Jaco was more of an innovator than say Mike Dirnt, but it doesn't mean Dirnt sucks. He's got his bag.
I was at NAMM once waiting to see Michael Manring perform. There was a mediocre cover by the booth and he waited patiently for them to finish (they went over), and there was just a huge crowd of people wanting to see this band playing "Dancing with Myself" with Roland V-Drums and the works.
I was like "HELLO??? Manring here has one of the most beautiful musical voices, yet you guys are wanting to see this crappy cover band???" But I couldn't judge them. They may not see Manring's appeal, but to me, it's simply their loss.
BTW, Manring's essay on "groove" is worth the entire subscription to Bass Player mag. It was in September 2005 issue, I believe.
His groove was way deep. It may not be dance music, but is groove just reduced to that?
Besides, given the context of what he was doing, he explored the infinite possibilites of what can be done on the bass. Not everyone cares to hear that stuff, but "grooveless wanking"? He can groove but he play like a melodic horn player, too.
Not that many peole doing that at the time. And though the electric has definitely lends itself to be a "groove machine", it doesn't always have to be. It DOES have a legitimate expressive soloistic voice, even if it's not as popular as, well, a band playing pop music. Jaco gave that legitimacy.
And really, I don't think ANYONE'S talent huge talent diminishes what anyone else has to offer. Sure, Jaco was more of an innovator than say Mike Dirnt, but it doesn't mean Dirnt sucks. He's got his bag.
I was at NAMM once waiting to see Michael Manring perform. There was a mediocre cover by the booth and he waited patiently for them to finish (they went over), and there was just a huge crowd of people wanting to see this band playing "Dancing with Myself" with Roland V-Drums and the works.
I was like "HELLO??? Manring here has one of the most beautiful musical voices, yet you guys are wanting to see this crappy cover band???" But I couldn't judge them. They may not see Manring's appeal, but to me, it's simply their loss.
BTW, Manring's essay on "groove" is worth the entire subscription to Bass Player mag. It was in September 2005 issue, I believe.
Thank you, thank you. It's about time the truth came out.
Link Removed
Yes he's good, but.... but ....... there's just a bit too many notes. Do fix that please, thank you.
Oh and I love the Jeffery Jones reference
thats cool , michaelangelo was a great painter but his paintings dont turn me on. i understand. jonhny a. staind
This illustrates exactly what is wrong with Wikipedia and especially taking it as your sole source!!
Jaco had a huge influence on bass players in the UK - when Weather Report toured here - every bass player I knew was trying to work out what he was doing!
As to Holiday for Pans - it was never finished and never released before Jaco's tragic death - it's a long and complicated story which can only be understood by taking into account Jaco's fragile mental state and his relationships - none of which is "punchy" enough copy, for a summary in Wiki...
Above all else, Jaco had a great sense of timing, and his choice and placement of rhythm was excellent. This I think, is Jaco's legacy which many people often imitate but fail to master.
It does require a level of understanding to 'get' what Jaco was doing - whether that relates to liking it or not, is another matter - but there is no denying it!
I appreciate Jaco for his contribution. I enjoy his music on a limited scope. I really like his playing on "Bright Size Life" (Pat Metheny). It's not typical Jaco playing IMO. I like a couple of tracks of his solo recording. I dig it when he does "The Chicken". Much of his music doesn't hold my attention, but I do appreciate it of course.
I wouldn't call myself a fan though.
Peace & Music
Joe
I wouldn't call myself a fan though.
Peace & Music
Joe
rockstarbassist
Inactive
I swear to all that is holy, if some ignoramus attempts another "Jaco = Mozart" comparison, you better be glad you're on the other end of this computer...
Mozart was the most accomplished and (arguably, besides Bach) accoladed musician in history. And this is after hundreds of years.
I ask people who have been on the music scene, pro players for 20+ years in rock, pop, country, etc. who have never even heard of the guy. Who are more famous/accomplished than you OR me.
Aside from this forum and Bass Player Rag, that's what the common response is.
Can you name me a song that any average person (not a W.R. or J.P.B.B. fan) would recognize he even played on? Cause I can name about 10, maybe 20 that has that signature Jamerson swing/groove that people have been digging on for decades now...
I equate Jaco diehards to the guitarists w/ the EVH blinders on. It's all the same.
Mozart was the most accomplished and (arguably, besides Bach) accoladed musician in history. And this is after hundreds of years.
I ask people who have been on the music scene, pro players for 20+ years in rock, pop, country, etc. who have never even heard of the guy. Who are more famous/accomplished than you OR me.
Aside from this forum and Bass Player Rag, that's what the common response is.
Can you name me a song that any average person (not a W.R. or J.P.B.B. fan) would recognize he even played on? Cause I can name about 10, maybe 20 that has that signature Jamerson swing/groove that people have been digging on for decades now...
I equate Jaco diehards to the guitarists w/ the EVH blinders on. It's all the same.
I think a lot of people (me included for a short time) look only at his solo work which if you are not a jazz fan is hard to get into. Instead I think people should look at stuff like Weather Report. His playing is fantastic there and it is more "typical" bass playing.
It's after hearing that stuff that I'd recommend his solo work which beautifully written and played in my opinion.
If you still don't like him, fair enough, but don't say he's a bad player.
Oh and since when does fame = good musician.
There's no need to insult people over their opinions such as saying that people who claim to like Jaco only do it to look good. That's just silly.
Also somewhat off topic but I'm not a big fan of Mozart at all. I can understand his ability but I do not like the majority of his work. I'm a big fan of classical music from lots of the many subgenres as well. I would never say he was bad just I don't like him.
Edit: To rockstarbassist,
I could not name one song or even upon hearing a song recognise that it is one that Jamerson played on. I consider myself an average person so does that mean Jamerson isn't important? Of course not he is a very important player, perhaps not to me directly but to many other people. Not everybody listens to all types of music and I could find thousands more "average people" who wouldn't have heard of James Jamerson at all and haven't heard the music he played on.
It's after hearing that stuff that I'd recommend his solo work which beautifully written and played in my opinion.
If you still don't like him, fair enough, but don't say he's a bad player.
Oh and since when does fame = good musician.
There's no need to insult people over their opinions such as saying that people who claim to like Jaco only do it to look good. That's just silly.
Also somewhat off topic but I'm not a big fan of Mozart at all. I can understand his ability but I do not like the majority of his work. I'm a big fan of classical music from lots of the many subgenres as well. I would never say he was bad just I don't like him.
Edit: To rockstarbassist,
I could not name one song or even upon hearing a song recognise that it is one that Jamerson played on. I consider myself an average person so does that mean Jamerson isn't important? Of course not he is a very important player, perhaps not to me directly but to many other people. Not everybody listens to all types of music and I could find thousands more "average people" who wouldn't have heard of James Jamerson at all and haven't heard the music he played on.
rockstarbassist
Inactive
One day, you'll "Grow up" and become a "real" musician... then you'll "get it"...
I'm in that same stream. Jaco is due all the praise he gets as an innovator, player, band leader and influence. But for me? I 'd rather listen to Lee Sklar pedal eighth notes all day. As far as the "who's better" trail that goes on? For me there is no "better" just "different"
This illustrates exactly what is wrong with Wikipedia and especially taking it as your sole source!!
Jaco had a huge influence on bass players in the UK - when Weather Report toured here - every bass player I knew was trying to work out what he was doing!
As to Holiday for Pans - it was never finished and never released before Jaco's tragic death - it's a long and complicated story which can only be understood by taking into account Jaco's fragile mental state and his relationships - none of which is "punchy" enough copy, for a summary in Wiki...
You could add any sort of summary you wanted to Wiki, I'm sure. If you know more and didn't post it, then that illustrates a chief problem of trying to communicate on bulletin boards. Wikipedia, at least, has places where people discuss the subject matter in detail and attempt to tell what they know (check their editing pages). They certainly provide more information than you did - but your answer implies that you have a better answer that you didn't reveal in your post.
It shouldn't be too hard - if you know the answer - to confirm whether or not he played bass on Pan. Whether or not it was ever released (and all that stuff) isn't what interests me - I'm more interested in what Jaco was trying to do, musically, near the end. Since I stated plainly that all I had was Wiki, as my source, and you're certain there's more information - could you post it?
If no one knows whether he played bass on Pan, then Wikipedia needs revision. It cites 12 sources, btw - and again, provides more information than what I can find here on Talkbass.
His bipolar illness is pretty well covered in Wikipedia, really - it goes as deeply into it as I think an encyclopedia should, enough to explain that, to my way of thinking, it was the main reason he died the way he did.
The Pastorius family's website on Jaco is highly informative (no one ever saw him put chicken grease on his fingers...)
One day, you'll "Grow up" and become a "real" musician... then you'll "get it"...
Maybe I will
I agree Jaco is not on the same level (or even close to it) as Mozart (See my previous post). For that matter I'd add Bach and my personal favorite, Beethoven. But please don't equate all Jaco fans (of which I am one) as having blinders on.
- Status
