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Anyone scoop mids for rock??

Spinal Tapper

Spinal Tapper

Nov 15, 2007
6,797
348
Chicago
soundcloud.com
#1
Sup dudes, so I was tweaking my Markbass R500 the other day after talking to a buddy of mine about vintage bass amps and why most of them don't have mid channels and I realized with my mids at 0, this thing kills and cuts through my band like no-other! I really prefer the tone this way!

I've been reading so much on here about how you need mids to cut, but honestly, it's been muddying up my tone when I crank my amp if that makes sense...sometimes I'll boost a little hi-mids for if it's feeling a little wimpy on the D/G strings now, but yeah, I'm totally stoked! BTW, my bass is usually around noon and my treble about 2 or 3 o'clock...

I've been crankin my mids for years to "cut through"...I have to say, this is almost life-changing! Maybe it was just my amp? Or my cabs? Or my settings? I dunno, but now, wherever I put my actual instrument settings, the sound is still clear and punchier. I did the same thing at my other rehearsal space with my V4-B and I got the same results! I crystal clear bass tone! Even with a rock band setting...have I been mislead this whole time???

I play in a synth-rock band called Blane Fonda. You can check our stuff out on myspace if u click on my sig.
 
#2
Spinal Tapper said:
I've been crankin my mids for years to "cut through".....have I been mislead this whole time???
Click to expand...
The voicing of every amp is different, so the position of the EQ controls, or for that matter the lack of them, has no bearing on the actual frequency response. Many older amps with no mid control were mid-boosted, while on many that did have mid control the only thing it would do is cut. So while the knob may have been set at 10 that might have been 10dB of boost, or it may have been flat. That's why you always set EQ with your ears, not your eyes.
 
#3
billfitzmaurice said:
The voicing of every amp is different, so the position of the EQ controls, or for that matter the lack of them, has no bearing on the actual frequency response. Many older amps with no mid control were mid-boosted, while on many that did have mid control the only thing it would do is cut. So while the knob may have been set at 10 that might have been 10dB of boost, or it may have been flat. That's why you always set EQ with your ears, not your eyes.
Click to expand...

+1

Also, what may sounds really good to *you* might not sound great in the mix. I ran scooped mids for YEARS and was always amazed how nice I sounded... but folks 30 feet away couldn't hear me at all - they could feel me just fine, but hear?

I'd suggest you try it both ways with someone you trust listening to the overall band mix, not just how your bass sounds. I'll bet you'll find that scooped mids is not the answer.
 
#4
BigOldHarry said:
+1

Also, what may sounds really good to *you* might not sound great in the mix. I ran scooped mids for YEARS and was always amazed how nice I sounded... but folks 30 feet away couldn't hear me at all - they could feel me just fine, but hear?

I'd suggest you try it both ways with someone you trust listening to the overall band mix, not just how your bass sounds. I'll bet you'll find that scooped mids is not the answer.
Click to expand...


+1. Scooped (except for a solo) is NOT where it's at. I never, never, never scoop my mids in a band context unless I have a lead and I'm loudest anyway.
 
#5
Scooped may sound good up close, but from an audience point of view will almost always be lost in the mix. While people have different ideas of how bass is supposed to sound, I'd say the large majority of sound engineers expect the majority of the freq range to be in the low mids/ mids range. Thats the punch and growl most people talk about.
 
#6
It really depends on the type of band you are in. If it's loud rock, the scooped tone is going to get buried in the low end of the guitars, the attack of the drums, and the vocals. Your bass may already be mid boosted or has some tone character to it that allows you to hear yourself even with the mids scooped.

If you have PA support and the rig on stage is for your monitoring purpose's and/or possibly miced, then do whatever works for you. The sound man will most likely pump some mids in your tone and/or request a pre-signal of just your bass so he can give your bass a little more character to the audience.
 
#8
"Scooping" mids isn't always a bad thing if it makes you sound good in your mix. That means across the entire stage if you have PA support or 20-30 ft. out front of your rig if you don't. You can reduce some of the mid freqs. without gutting the whole sound, just take out the nasally/modern sounding stuff and leave the warm stuff.

I think the "never scoop mids" stuff is people over-reacting when they finally figured out that the "V" eq is not where it's at. That one involves greatly boosting bass and treble in addition to cutting mids making it sound like even less mids in comparison. Anyway, if it sounds good, do it, but don't judge your sound from 5ft. in front of your rig, get away from it to hear what's really going on.
 
#9
I add 3-6db of low mids and take 3-6db of high mids, and usually add a little bass and cut a little treble. Seems to work out well, especially since my bass is fairly middy by nature.

It's all about slotting into your mix; ours involves two to three guitars and a couple vocals in the range where me pumping mids would obscure them.
 
#12
will33 said:
People talk about mids as if that meant one frequency or something. Anything from 100 or 200hz up to 4000hz or so could be considered some sort of "mid".
Click to expand...

Ditto. Especially when mixing bass tracks in recorded music, there are certain areas in the "lower" mids (again, dependent on the music, etc. exactly WHICH freqs) that often (if not regularly) need to be cut to clean up the bottom end and marry the bass nicely with the kick drum and make space for other things. Live is a totally different story of course . . .
 
#15
In regards to the up close vs. 30 feet away discussion, it also depends on whether or not you're using a mic and/or a PA. If this is just for practice or an amp-only gig then you obviously need to be heard regardless of how it sounds to you on stage. Bass and amp are also important factors... I usually scoop the mids a bit on J basses, but it'll take the balls right out of a P!
 
#16
bigblondeafro87 said:
Scooped may sound good up close, but from an audience point of view will almost always be lost in the mix. .
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I don't agree with the common "mid scoop is bad, mmm'kay... / get lost in the mix..mmm'kay." crap I read daily here.

Some of us hear ourselves just fine by the low end / fundamental notes we are playing. I don't need a honky-ass midrangey tone to be heard by others either.

I often prefer a tone that sits UNDER the band, as in "bassy sounding" and hear myself just fine - the midrange is totally crammed full of guitars / vocals / keyboards / etc - so boosting the **** out of your mids just seems to clutter up the sound alot of the time. I'm not trying to bulldoze my way into the mix so I can "cut through". I'm a ****ing bass player, not some solo bass-wanker. I like solid low end that SUPPORTS the band.

This depends entirely on the band, style of music, etc. There is no one right way. If you like a scooped sound, then scoop.

I am tired of hearing this "Mids, mids, more mids, boost the crap out of your mids until everyone hates you and you sound like Jaco's ass-trumpet." thing that I read every single day here. :rolleyes: Think for yourself and use YOUR ears.
 
#20
wellshuxley said:
In regards to the up close vs. 30 feet away discussion, it also depends on whether or not you're using a mic and/or a PA. If this is just for practice or an amp-only gig then you obviously need to be heard regardless of how it sounds to you on stage. Bass and amp are also important factors... I usually scoop the mids a bit on J basses, but it'll take the balls right out of a P!
Click to expand...

The close up vs. 30 ft. away thing holds true in both cases.

Example 1. You're run through the PA, that's for the audience to hear, your rig becomes a stage monitor for you and your band. In this case it is of benefit in a lot of cases to face your rig sideways across the band and your guitar players do the same so you all can hear each other well and stay together/play tight. That guitarist on the other end over there, 15-30ft. away from you should both want to and be able to hear you.

Example 2. You're playing a small/medium size gig where your rig is what the audience hears. You need to point it at the center of the audience and get out there and see what it sounds like to them. After all, they're the ones who paid to come see you or are there buying drinks adding to your success. In that case, dealing with a little less than stellar sound where you're standing should be worth it in order to sound good out there to the people who are paying your bills.
 

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