Are DJs Musicians?

[SJan3]

Thanks for the laughs.

You too.

 

[ruju]

Man, I feel sorry for this guy. Two nice looking turntables and both of them cause records to skip. Replacing the drive belt might fix that.

These turntables are motor driven.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Well, good for you. You think like a business person. That's exactly what ruined the music industry.
Thanks for your contribution.

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson

 

[SJan3]

View attachment 3826899
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson

Ain't it the truth.

 

[factory presets]

Man, I feel sorry for this guy. Two nice looking turntables and both of them cause records to skip. Replacing the drive belt might fix that.

Pretty sure the drive belt is long gone from those turntables

 

[ruju]

You're not breaking anything to me. I don't think you know who you're talking to. No, being a real musician has absolutely nothing to do with being a businessman unless you want to measure success by income. There are many talented players out there that could give a rat's ass about how much money they're earning. An artist is true to their work regardless of public opinion.
Now, if you measure success by $$$, you've missed the point of art. There are so many people on the national stage that wouldn't be there a few decades ago because they wouldn't have had the aid of technology to make someone very average sound great. That's the business world molding a product to make it saleable. That's not my idea of art.
Say anything else and expose yourself as part of the problem.
Do you want to be a product or do you want to make music? There's a difference.

Lol..right. Musicians want to get paid for their craft. So they can continue making music, as a professional.
To be a professional musician you need to make income from music.
There's no reason an artist can't and shouldn't be able to earn a living doing what they love.
In order to sustain and do this they require to have sense of business.
All the albums you've heard and love were created on a deal. A business deal.
Do you only gig for free?

 

[factory presets]

Is what it is and does what it does. And employs a lot of people doing it

Edit. Goes on a bit though, don't it

 

[DJ Bebop]

Is what it is and does what it does. And employs a lot of people doing it

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think what she is doing is musical. I would consider her and her ilk musicians.
Like him.


A wedding DJ spinning your favorite playlist, not so much

 

[factory presets]

No, being a real musician has absolutely nothing to do with being a businessman unless you want to measure success by income

If you don't want money and fame, there's a perfectly good bedroom for you somewhere. If an audience matters, plenty of people would love a band at their party if the price is right. If paying gigs are your goal, you are, by definition, aiming for the music business.

There are so many people on the national stage that wouldn't be there a few decades ago because they wouldn't have had the aid of technology to make someone very average sound great. That's the business world molding a product to make it saleable.

Who's to say those people wouldn't by driven to make audible art by whatever means available in any era? I don't believe you are trying to tell me Jimi Hendrix would've been a carpenter if he didn't have a fuzzbox and a wha-wha.

When you talk about art, you open up a whole new can of worms. In Beethoven's day people clip clopped from place to place and heard birds singing along the way. And the music reflected that with the instruments available. Today people drive their jeeps through urban environments past all manner of music blaring from shops and houses. It hardly seems surprising that artists would try to mould those experiences into something meaningful for their audiences.

If you can bear with the gross oversimplification.

Another part of the art question is what is the cut-off for recorded music? Used to be a school of thought that only live music was real. Now the dream gig is being in a studio and never seeing an audience. There's aspects of that you might consider not real communication. And hence not real art. Also the Bostons and Mike Oldfields of this world? Are they any different from all the bedroom producers MIDIing albums into their computers, track by track?

I can understand the appeal of gatekeeping the term for what you do. It's an important part of your identity, after all. But the pace of change in a world of global communications means that gate needs more maintenance than it could possibly be worth. No bass players are competing for work with DJ Wickety Wickety. Employer wants one or the other. Or routinely both.

 

[SJan3]

Lol..right. Musicians want to get paid for their craft. So they can continue making music, as a professional.
To be a professional musician you need to make income from music.
There's no reason an artist can't and shouldn't be able to earn a living doing what they love.
In order to sustain and do this they require to have sense of business.
All the albums you've heard and love were created on a deal. A business deal.
Do you only gig for free?

You make me laugh. Yea, a business head generates profits but you don't need to be a businessperson to be a musician. They are separate attributes. Many top players have no business sense whatsoever and so they hire a manager.

 

[SJan3]

If you don't want money and fame, there's a perfectly good bedroom for you somewhere. If an audience matters, plenty of people would love a band at their party if the price is right. If paying gigs are your goal, you are, by definition, aining for the music business.


Who's to say those people wouldn't by driven to make audible art by whatever means available in any era? I don't believe you are trying to tell me Jimi Hendrix would've been a carpenter if he didn't have a fuzzbox and a wha-wha.

When you talk about art, you open up a whole new can of worms. In Beethoven's day people clip clopped from place to place and heard birds singing along the way. And the music reflected that with the instruments available. Today people drive their jeeps through urban environments past all manner of music blaring from shops and houses. It hardly seems surprising that artists would try to mould those experiences into something meaningful for their audiences.

If you can bear with the gross oversimplification.

Edit in progress. More to come

Money and fame is not the goal of every musician.

 

[SJan3]

If you don't want money and fame, there's a perfectly good bedroom for you somewhere. If an audience matters, plenty of people would love a band at their party if the price is right. If paying gigs are your goal, you are, by definition, aining for the music business.


Who's to say those people wouldn't by driven to make audible art by whatever means available in any era? I don't believe you are trying to tell me Jimi Hendrix would've been a carpenter if he didn't have a fuzzbox and a wha-wha.

When you talk about art, you open up a whole new can of worms. In Beethoven's day people clip clopped from place to place and heard birds singing along the way. And the music reflected that with the instruments available. Today people drive their jeeps through urban environments past all manner of music blaring from shops and houses. It hardly seems surprising that artists would try to mould those experiences into something meaningful for their audiences.

If you can bear with the gross oversimplification.

Edit in progress. More to come

Spare me with more to come. We think differently. We're likely from different eras. I grew up in a musical home and went to NYC frequently with my dad who was an in demand Horn player. Yes, he needed to make a living and sometimes he made musical concessions for the sake of income but he never lost sight of who or what he was.
The industrialization of music makes me sad as, again, a once beautiful art form has been pilfered by the lust for greed and fame. That's not my world.

 

[ruju]

You make me laugh. Yea, a business head generates profits but you don't need to be a businessperson to be a musician. They are separate attributes. Many top players have no business sense whatsoever and so they hire a manager.

Resorting to personal insults is a true sign of weakness.
You should really reread your own posts. You are disagreeing with yourself.lol

 

[factory presets]

The industrialization of music makes me sad as, again, a once beautiful art form has been pilfered by the lust for greed and fame. That's not my world.

The same people pilfering the money and fame from tech based music are the same people who took the money and fame from the rock bands and swing bands before them. Least they had the same job descriptions. It's just that music grows and evolves. In spite of the best efforts of arts councils and government subsidies. To me, I can either decry that and become bitter or embrace it and enjoy the ride. But I'm not gonna tell you how to live.

Edit: mid 60s me. We probably ain't that far apart.

 

[SJan3]

The same people pilfering the money and fame from tech based music are the same people who took the money and fame from the rock bands and swing bands before them. Least they had the same job descriptions. It's just that music grows and evolves. In spite of the best efforts of arts councils and government subsidies. To me, I can either decry that and become bitter or embrace it and enjoy the ride. But I'm not gonna tell you how to live.

I don't disagree. There really is little choice if you want to work. Unless I'm playing a wedding, political function, private party etc, my gigs typically feature people my age (60's) who are looking to make something musical and acceptable by the public. We play to our generation but many younger people embrace us as well. I guess that's a win win.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Music is music.


How it's made or paid for, is another subject altogether.

 

[factory presets]

I don't disagree. There really is little choice if you want to work. Unless I'm playing a wedding, political function, private party etc, my gigs typically feature people my age (60's) who are looking to make something musical and acceptable by the public. We play to our generation but many younger people embrace us as well. I guess that's a win win.

Don't doubt for a second that you have some modern material in your set list for younger people. You'd be real outliers if you didn't. Or that people our age can enjoy some of that as well.

I used to play those gigs but I noticed, particularly the corporate ones, the 60s and 70s were falling out of favour. Interestingly, if you had 4 hours could pass for rock and roll you were good to go. Smuggle some 60s in that back door. 70s and 80s strictly verboten in that case. Eventually got sick of the same old songs and woefully inadequate set lists. Still do occasional weddings and parties for friends and family. But now I use the lappy. Don't have to convince anyone to learn anything. Don't have to be called a musician. If some 40yos want Slayer they get some. If granny wants Frank she gets something stupid and one for the road. Everybody is happy.

 

[factory presets]

Music is music.


How it's made or paid for, is another subject altogether.

Should be a hell yes button for posts like that.

 

[SJan3]

Don't doubt for a second that you have some modern material in your set list for younger people. You'd be real outliers if you didn't. Or that people our age can enjoy some of that as well.

I used to play those gigs but I noticed, particularly the corporate ones, the 60s and 70s were falling out of favour. Interestingly, if you had 4 hours could pass for rock and roll you were good to go. Smuggle some 60s in that back door. 70s and 80s strictly verboten in that case. Eventually got sick of the same old songs and woefully inadequate set lists. Still do occasional weddings and parties for friends and family. But now I use the lappy. Don't have to convince anyone to learn anything. Don't have to be called a musician. If some 40yos want Slayer they get some. If granny wants Frank she gets something stupid and one for the road. Everybody is happy.

We've probably chewed some of the same dirt. But the lappy thing
I just can't do. I'm technically challenged. LOL! Heck, I even resist a compressor and I have one. Every dog has his day. Perhaps mine is coming...
Have a good night.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Don't doubt for a second that you have some modern material in your set list for younger people. You'd be real outliers if you didn't. Or that people our age can enjoy some of that as well.

I used to play those gigs but I noticed, particularly the corporate ones, the 60s and 70s were falling out of favour. Interestingly, if you had 4 hours could pass for rock and roll you were good to go. Smuggle some 60s in that back door. 70s and 80s strictly verboten in that case. Eventually got sick of the same old songs and woefully inadequate set lists. Still do occasional weddings and parties for friends and family. But now I use the lappy. Don't have to convince anyone to learn anything. Don't have to be called a musician. If some 40yos want Slayer they get some. If granny wants Frank she gets something stupid and one for the road. Everybody is happy.

Yep! If I'm going to an event of family and friends. I always through a laptop and some sort of powered speaker in the trunk, just in case. More times than not it comes out and I'm the instant DJ. The hard drive has most of the recognized music of the last 80 years on it. A little something for everyone

I'll through on some Zappa or The Fugs or The Silver Apples on for my personal amusement and to get those lingering a little too long to move out a little faster