You forgot Max Bennet age 89 , born 1928 , Jazz bassist who also worked with Tom Scott and the L.A. Express and Joni Mitchell
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Are the big amps history?
- Thread starter jkalads
- Start date
Max is awesome, he's done some absolutely Killer tracks, from The Wrecking Crew to Elvis, to "The Partridge Family"
!Always knockin' it down.
Below; Nathan is the 'Baby" and Lee shows no signs of slowing down.
Nathan Harrell East is an American jazz, R&B and rock bass player and vocalist. With more than 2,000 recordings, East is considered one of the most recorded bass players in the history of music. Wikipedia
Born: December 8, 1955 (age 61)
Leland Bruce "Lee" Sklar is an American musician. A prominent electric bass guitarist, Sklar has contributed to over 2,000 albums as a session musician. Wikipedia
Born: May 28, 1947 (age 70)
I think you missed the point. Looking good onstage, including your amp, choice of bass, etc. is part of the show. Even if you're playing Sunday Mass, you are putting on a show. By your logic we should all dress like poopie on stage, because 'if we have to rely on looking good to impress our audience...'
BIG PLUS 1!
And no, your not being a wise-a, your simply telling it like it is.
There is NO replacement for displacement....
60 years young here and just bought a, (what is considered a "big" cabinet by todays standards), Bergantino NV610.
It's 100 lbs. of pure ear joy!
Driving it with a Mesa M-6 Carbine and crushing "all" the micro heads and small lite weight cabinets I've auditioned in the past MANY years.
I've almost always have FOH, but this combination has filled out the stage sound of the group I'm working with like NO small rig could ever approach....
I've also heard a MANY other acts where the bass is direct, floor monitors or in ears on stage (no stage amp) and FOH for the house.
Maybe it's just the old codger and set in my ways that I am, but I've yet to hear a bass tone that wasn't either thin and watery or just mud with this approach.
.....
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You have cogently provided matter for further consideration here.
This is an example of a professional musician with many years of experience on a stage that is actually large enough to justify having a large amp electing to trust his engineer and leave the amp at home. The engineer has experience commensurate with the musician. The musician can do what he wants, up to and including firing the FOH engineer, but instead elects to do what is best for the overall sound to the audience...even though he prefers having a back line, is on a stage that can actually use a large amp, and has satisfactory funds available to pay for hauling a large amp and having employees move it and set it up. This provides compelling evidence that a large amp may no longer be appropriate for the best sound in the audience. The argument for a large amp on stage can only diminish as the stage decreases in size.
Each band will have its own preference, and some, such as iron Maiden, continue to tour with a live stage (full back line and wedge support). But there are those yielding to what should be readily apparent by now; the back line isn't really necessary. For me it feels better and is quite fun to have heavy iron behind me, but in the end, the large amp in the back line does not provide results consistently superior to what can be more easily and economically attained without a large dedicated amp.
The second part of the post is mildly amusing. I've seen Rush many times over the last 40 years or so, both before and after his use of cabs on stage. I can state without hesitation that the bass in the house sounded precisely like Geddy Lee each time. I'm sure those stating the bass sounded inferior without a back line believe what they are saying. I suspect this is the mind overstepping its own limits. Humans have a fairly short aural memory; much shorter than visual, but longer than the olfactory memory. Under ideal circumstances they are not able to consistently discern fine aural differences when the time line stretches past just a few minutes. The band typically plays theaters in Southern California ranging in size from roughly 10,000 to about 25,000 seats, and I suspect the venue sizes are typically similar elsewhere, at least in larger markets. Being able to tell whether there is a back line or not in a venue in this size range is questionable in its own right. Magnify that by the fact that those claiming to be able to tell the difference did not see the band with and without back line within moments of each event, but rather within many months. Additionally, the notion of a discernible difference in the quality of the bass tone would only be credible if the experience with and without a back line came from roughly the same seat in the same hall with roughly the same number of people in it at each occasion. I'm afraid I must respectfully conclude that claims of the sound being superior with a back line lack credibility.
All this aside, everyone should do what puts a smile on their face when possible. If that includes using a large amp, go for it. As I posited earlier, I suspect this is the reason large amps are still used when they have outlived the reason they came into being...it's fun.
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I've seen Rush 12 to 14 times starting relatively late with the Power Windows tour. Not sure if that was already after he ditched the back line. I thought they sounded best on the Presto Tour (1986?) but I had good seats which I suspect have more to do with the experience than anything.
I would think unless your in the front of the stage , being maybe the first 25 rows or so, mostly what your hearing is the FOH sound P.A.
I was 17th row, dead center. I can't believe I remember that after 31 years. I also remember someone passing my kid brother a joint and him not knowing what it was.
Edit: It was 1990, not 1986.
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Gotta give you credit...most people assume there's some sort of invisible wall at the end of the stage that stops any sound from your amp hitting the crowd
I saw RUSH once when they were promoting 2112, so like '75 or so? I'm guessing here. I just remember it being quite loud and Geddy sounding like he was inhaling helium the whole time
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My projection tech toured with Rush for 3 or 4 years, yes they were very loud.
And I've seen guys with all sorts of fancy gear and pedals who flat out wail and sound awesome, and I've seen guys with a beat up bass and simple combo amp that sound like crap. The musician makes the gear, true enough, and that's why your comparison is a false one.
Here's the deal...bigger is better for bass...always. Notice I didn't say "sometimes"...I said "always." It is physics. This is why people who buy a little cab usually end up buying two of them, and this is why tiny little PA systems with tiny little undersized subs are rarely seen on pro gigs. That is not to say little stuff can't sound good...it can. But even the best and most efficient little stuff always sounds better when it's doubled up...always.
I play both sides of the fence on this one...at 56, I've come to appreciate a nice sounding small rig because I can't do a string of one-nighters lugging an SVT and 810 to all of them, and one-nighters are about all I play anymore. I also have gigs where there are line of sight issues that require something smaller as not to block off the audience's view or hide people onstage behind me. But would I rather have the SVT and 810? Always. It just plain sounds better than my small rigs, even if I'm playing at a low volume that my small gear can easily handle. That's why I still lug it to my gigs on occasion, and it's what I always request when I do a fly gig and have to rent an amp. It has sod-all to do with impressing an audience with visuals and everything to do with creating an environment of comfort for myself onstage. The look is just a bonus. But hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself to assume otherwise, knock yourself out. Just realize I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks, least of all other bass players.
Always?
Funny stuff... but you know you're speaking in absolutes so...
Granted, some folks are going to live in the past and that's cool. No need for them to check out new approaches. I put my rig up against bigger ones quite frequently. If I thought a big rig sounded better I'd use one. Instead, my rig sounds exactly like I want. So even on gigs where backline is provided, I chose what sounds better to me in the mix. And I only carry one small cab for any gigs I do.
If I had backline and roadies provided for every gig I do free of charge, I'd have them bring what I carry.
I've been in similar situations, heard no magic and often came close to asking or did ask if they minded if I used my stuff. Big and loud aren't worth squat to me if they aren't quick yet hefty with the tone I'm after. I've used SVTs, big Eden rigs like an 1-18/410 setup and even owned a Trace Elliot AH600 with 1-15/410 stack. Now I know that looks means nothing to me, particularly using something large in part because it looks large.
I'm spoiled... no nostalgia here. And I came up during the early heyday of SVTs. Bought one at a garage sale in the 90's and immediately flipped it, never owned and gigged one.
Fortunately they don't depend on people like me and the people who like them use them so it all works out.
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That strikes me as about right. I bought a class D head a couple years ago to replace a solid state head that I had gigged off and on for a long time which was falling apart. Bottom line for me is that the class D does everything I'd want from an SS amp, in less space and weight (not that, for the most part SS heads were that big of a deal to move). But I really so no reason to buy a non D SS head at this point. On the other hand, part of me would still like something tubey, and I Dont' see class D replacing that anymore.
Sorry to hear that. IME great live sound is entirely doable... with all sorts of rigs.
Again... that depends. I've been on stages with for example Meyer Sound monitors/mains AND engineers who knew what they were doing.
Agreed.
There always seem to be statement about what new gear can't do, sometimes followed by the disclosure that they haven't really checked out much if any newer gear.
I go by what works for me on my gigs. First line item, must sound great, period. I play better when I sound great... and the band is up to par.
Then portability is a big factor for me. No one I play with would be impressed by me bringing anything larger than what I use. They're concerned about me getting the job done.
