yea the whole subject of cognitive bias is significant and should be a mandatory high school level class.
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At what point is it lowballing. A poll.
- Thread starter TheReceder
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- lowball
If you want to be compensated for your shipping fees and transaction fees then you should set your price accordingly or charge separately for the shipping. Remember that when and item bought it new, the store has to factor in overhead as well. An $1,800 retail price is for the item plus freight, assembly or setup, storage, the store's payroll and other operating expenses. That's how a retail store justifies it's profit margin. You have to pick your margin and roil with it.
On TB, people won't pay the price with shipping included. That's made TB largely into a place to trade instruments.
Not my experience... when I sell here, I find that I fetch higher prices than I could get locally. This could just be a factor of having a bigger, more focused audience or it could be the buyer's acknowledgement that my price is justified because it includes shipping.
Also, I am pretty much addicted to the TB classifieds, especially the basses section and there are far fewer trades going on compared to sales and almost every asking price includes shipping. All online shopping is affected by shipping costs.
Relative value of your TB listed item compared to other internet sales has to include whatever costs the seller is incurring there as well. Where is it that you are seeing your used $1,200 bass sell for that asking price with shipping and transaction fees not included?
You mostly sell pedals, yes, those are easier to sell here because we're addicted to effects and shipping is still low on pedals. I was mostly talking about basses that have greatly increased in shipping expense.
Last bass I sold was back in May... shipped UPS from Cleveland to Seattle for less than $75. I do not consider that too high.
Now, that sold through Reverb actually and the buyer paid my asking price with shipping then added on top. Admittedly, I agree that TB shoppers were not too interested at my asking price at all. The listing didn’t last long so I didn’t see much activity here but the one cash offer I got was only a little more than half my asking.
So I guess my recent personal experience seems to back up your point.
What I do see though is fairly active for sale listings and many are selling. Ones listed for sale only outnumber those listed as available for trade by more than 10 to 1 (rough modest guess) Most sales appear to be at fair pricing but it’s hard to say whether folks are actually getting the amount they want since no one wants to list the final sale price.
This is rather iffy. FOR ME....
It depends on the market and the my immediate vs long term need
as well the conditional and age of the product. I try to be realistic in my pricing when I sell, but even that doesn't always get me a sale. I did put 25% as my LB limit though.
Just to be clear... on the 60% offer... I actually told the seller that I knew it was a lowball offer... it was just all that I could afford at the time. I always treat the seller with respect and sometimes that helps to get a good deal. When I sell something, attitude can play a part in my bottom line, but usually I have a number in my head (ALONG WITH THE VOICES) that I feel is a fair price, or at least what I'm willing to take as a loss.
Depends how badly I want something. I don't troll sellers on any forum. If I am bothering to offer or ask you the bottom dollar, I have already decided will buy at some number above an initial offer. If seller takes my 40% below asking price with my acceptance of full shipping charges; that isn't lowballing, that is business.
Wasting someone's time is a different story.
Wasting someone's time is a different story.
"Worth" is part economics, part psychology, and probably part something else, too.
I have instruments from smaller, "medium-known" builders, and the instruments are of the highest quality -- materials, build, etc.! When buying from the builders, I don't have a problem paying their standard, asking price -- to me, it's "worth" it. At the same time, if I were to turn around and re-sell these instruments, I'd be lucky to get 50% for some of them (others maybe 60-70%), since the market for smaller, medium-known builders of high-quality instruments is fairly selective, and buyers, also, know that I'd be lucky to get a good price, despite them knowing the "worth."
I'm interested in a particular guitar right now (I'm a guitarist who fakes bass!); new from the builder (a medium/well-known guy in the "tele" market), the guitar is $5500. There's one on Reverb, built in 2017, perfect condition, all the specs I like, listed for $2600 ... wait, he dropped it to $2200, "OBO," and it's been listed a year! He's had and turned down three offers. [There are others on Reverb for less, but they are different woods, etc., and BTW, I'd probably never pay $5500 for a tele -- my wife would kill me!] So, despite people being willing to pay a lot of money for a new one from the builder, its "worth" is much less out there, used. If I were to buy it for, say, $2000, and for whatever reason wanted to sell it a month later, I'd be starting at $1800, and people would (maybe) offer $1500 -- and this is for a high-quality instrument!
I'm sure he wouldn't accept, but would it be "low-balling" to offer the current seller $1800, or even $1500 (what it's "worth")? Would I be a sucker for paying $2200 for a $5500 guitar?
I have instruments from smaller, "medium-known" builders, and the instruments are of the highest quality -- materials, build, etc.! When buying from the builders, I don't have a problem paying their standard, asking price -- to me, it's "worth" it. At the same time, if I were to turn around and re-sell these instruments, I'd be lucky to get 50% for some of them (others maybe 60-70%), since the market for smaller, medium-known builders of high-quality instruments is fairly selective, and buyers, also, know that I'd be lucky to get a good price, despite them knowing the "worth."
I'm interested in a particular guitar right now (I'm a guitarist who fakes bass!); new from the builder (a medium/well-known guy in the "tele" market), the guitar is $5500. There's one on Reverb, built in 2017, perfect condition, all the specs I like, listed for $2600 ... wait, he dropped it to $2200, "OBO," and it's been listed a year! He's had and turned down three offers. [There are others on Reverb for less, but they are different woods, etc., and BTW, I'd probably never pay $5500 for a tele -- my wife would kill me!] So, despite people being willing to pay a lot of money for a new one from the builder, its "worth" is much less out there, used. If I were to buy it for, say, $2000, and for whatever reason wanted to sell it a month later, I'd be starting at $1800, and people would (maybe) offer $1500 -- and this is for a high-quality instrument!
I'm sure he wouldn't accept, but would it be "low-balling" to offer the current seller $1800, or even $1500 (what it's "worth")? Would I be a sucker for paying $2200 for a $5500 guitar?
If an item has "OBO" - then I'm going to offer an amount that I'm happy with regardless of the listed price.
These are the guys who, when the ad says "lowballers will be ignored", can't understand why they're being ignored.
Two interesting issues here.
First, You raise a very good point about custom work.
When it comes to having a custom builder make something I won't haggle over price and I will have already researched their prices and made a value decision before ever talking to them. I respect the builder's time too much. Making instruments is not lucrative to begin with and maintaining the builder's goodwill is important in getting the best result and future service.
However, I might definitely say "This is what I can afford, can we tweak the specs/wood/etc" to get there?". The answer might be no, but often a good luthier might have workable solutions for ways to save money on a build. My current build with Lowdown bass saved a good deal of $ by me providing the hardware, pickups and other parts. Didn't actually change what I was planning on paying but I was able to stay within my budget and take some aesthetic upgrades that were formerly "like-to-haves" and include them in the build.
Secondly, as to "Worth" of the tele, I think you are over-thinking it. Regardless of what the listed prices are, the question is what is it "worth" to you? If it's worth $2200 to you feel free to pay it. If you want to offer less, go ahead, as the worst thing that can happen is the buyer says no and then you're no worse off than you began. If resale is a prime concern for you then perhaps what it's "worth" to you is what you can get for it later so in that case the solution is to buy a cheaper one or make an offer.
Personally, I still buy some instruments with the intention of flipping but some years ago I stopped worrying about resale value in the few instruments I buy for myself. Instead, I have a goal for what I need an instrument to achieve and I work within my budget to achieve that goal.
These are the guys who, when the ad says "lowballers will be ignored", can't understand why they're being ignored.
Rather rude response I'd say.
Every transaction is individual. When someone adds something to indicate they are firm on the price or they have their head in the clouds or are unwilling to even talk....I don't bother them unless I'm willing to pay their price.
I also don't buy and sell very often at all. However, every "lowball" offer I've ever made has been accepted.
Geez...What's the big deal? No offer is too low. It's a place to start.
If you're really so sensitive that you get personally insulted and upset by a "lowball" offer then maybe selling something to strangers isn't for you. Put it on consignment instead.
Just say no thanks or make a counter offer. Maybe even counter higher than your original asking price if you feel their first offer is that far off base. That gets their attention.
If you feel you are pricing your item fairly with the market indicate that your price is firm in your ad.
Whenever I have received a ridiculously low offer on something I always ask the buyer to justify his/her offer. What criteria did you use to formulate your offer? Usually they can't answer that.
Stay calm, be nice. Maybe they'll buy it for full price after all.
If you get all insulted and huffy about it you're not selling anything.
Negotiation isn't on the "thou shalt not" list in the big book...
Offer a bit less than you're actually willing to pay and let the fun begin.
If you're really so sensitive that you get personally insulted and upset by a "lowball" offer then maybe selling something to strangers isn't for you. Put it on consignment instead.
Just say no thanks or make a counter offer. Maybe even counter higher than your original asking price if you feel their first offer is that far off base. That gets their attention.
If you feel you are pricing your item fairly with the market indicate that your price is firm in your ad.
Whenever I have received a ridiculously low offer on something I always ask the buyer to justify his/her offer. What criteria did you use to formulate your offer? Usually they can't answer that.
Stay calm, be nice. Maybe they'll buy it for full price after all.
If you get all insulted and huffy about it you're not selling anything.
Negotiation isn't on the "thou shalt not" list in the big book...
Offer a bit less than you're actually willing to pay and let the fun begin.
There is a point where negotiation isn't worth the bother because there are flippers that lowball knowing that sooner or later someone will be desperate for cash. I usually just ignore lowball offers. I only need to sell my bass or pedal to one person. I don't need to make all potential buyers happy.
Certainly your prerogative as a seller.
I spent many years in the car business so negotiating is in my blood.
Certainly your prerogative as a seller.
I spent many years in the car business so negotiating is in my blood.
People need cars, you have the upper hand in that situation.
No, I totally disagree.
Buyers always have the upper hand and there's cars for sale everywhere.
A buyer can walk away anytime until they drive it off the lot.
Selling a bass or any gear really isn't much different.
