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AudioKinesis 112 Cab

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#103
KJung said:
Here is the clip. IMO, it does a pretty good job of communicating what this cab sounds like. I aprticularly like the 'gentle treble roll-off' tone (at least solo) with my bright, aggressive Sadowsky... nice warm tone!

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...

Extended & open. Nothing hyped. :cool:
 
#108
rpsands said:
Ken, I have to dispute something you said -- the 12/6 cabs being viewed as comparable to other boutique 12s. That's just wrong. The 3012LF will get around 3db louder under 300-400hz than any other 12 out there if not a little more.

If you wanted to give 'max volume' comparisons, the 3012LF cabinet is comparable to a high end 2x10 in maximum output (limited by thermal rather than displacement limitations), or a medium quality 3x10.

Duke's cab is closer to a high quality 3x10, but gives up a bit of low end response (below 60hz, where no one is really missing it except Knuckle players).

In sensitivity you're right, that the 12/6 is pretty much on par with most 1x12s, but displacement + sensitivity tells the volume story, neither one is sufficient by itself.
Click to expand...

I actually did not compare the 12/6 to other 'normal' 112's. I used the 12/6 as another example of what I call a 'super 112'. So, I agree with you completely. My phrasing might have been confusing in that post.

While the tone of the 12/6 cabs is not particularly my thing (maybe due to the various crossover designs I've heard... the mid response is just too smooth and 'polite' to my ear), the low end just thunders. However, with the 8ohm impedance, and also the larger size and even more deep low end, the 12/6 (at least the 4 or 5 that I've heard... I have a clip up on one of them) is not in the right tonal nor physical format direction for me. I think Duke's tighter voicing of his proprietary 3012LF 4ohm, and that crossover point up a bit more than the 12/6's to allow some of that upper mid content to come from the driver, combined with that killer crossover and big horn, is the sweet spot for me with these 'super 112's' regarding voicing.
 
#109
PS As a reminder for those who have one of these cabs on order, I've sent in measurements to LeCover in order for Larry to make a padded cover for this cab. I'll post up after I'm sure my measurements are exactly right when the cover arrives. That will make it easy to order, since they will have the cover programmed in their data base.

I would highly recommend the bottom, velcro tie down on any cab (including the Thunderchild) that uses the smooth duratex type finish. I believe it is an extra $10.

Cover should arrive sometime late next week. I'll post a picture and the contact info.
 
#110
DukeLeJeune said:
Eric, I don't think I have the solution you're looking for, and I really wish I did.


I think the fEarful 15/6 or Barefaced Big One, or custom LDS 15/6 cab are better candidates for your needs than my cab. They play louder, go deeper, aren't too much heavier (45 pounds for the Big One) and are 8-ohm loads. And/or maybe consider a folding hand cart.
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Duke; Thank you for being so brutally honest, even at the expense of missing a sale. I've long been a proponent of the fEarful style builds, but after reading about the T-Child, I started to really want one, as I'm very impressed with your dedication to research and design. If only my band were just a shade quieter I think it would be perfect.

At present, I do use a folding cart for transport but it's the actual lifting into and out of the truck that makes the heavier cabs harder to deal with. With the recent loss of muscle mass in my arms, lifting a 45lb. cab these days feels like a 75 lb. cab did ten years ago!

I wish you great success, and if you ever do pursue a 15" version, I'll be on board immediately! Keep up the good work!...E.
 
#111
lbwdog said:
Duke; Thank you for being so brutally honest, even at the expense of missing a sale. I've long been a proponent of the fEarful style builds, but after reading about the T-Child, I started to really want one, as I'm very impressed with your dedication to research and design. If only my band were just a shade quieter I think it would be perfect.

At present, I do use a folding cart for transport but it's the actual lifting into and out of the truck that makes the heavier cabs harder to deal with. With the recent loss of muscle mass in my arms, lifting a 45lb. cab these days feels like a 75 lb. cab did ten years ago!

I wish you great success, and if you ever do pursue a 15" version, I'll be on board immediately! Keep up the good work!...E.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Eric.

The 3015LF just doesn't sound as good in the midrange as the 3012 series, to my ears anyway, and finding a compression driver that will go down low enough to meet it is a challenge. Of course I could use a cone, but then I'd just be replicating the work of others. I want to do things that put new choices on the menu.

Okay for loading my big 190-pound home audio speakers in and out the back of my Scion, I use a "slippy board". It's a four-foot lightweight plywood board (reinforced longitudinally on the underside with 1x2 white pine "rails") that's covered with the slickest cloth I could find at the fabric store. I can slide the speakers up or down it, and never have to actually lift them. Go with the longest slippy board you can comfortably fit into your truck.

* * * *

By the way, another cabinet line that I just read up on last night which looks very good to me is Baer Amplification. Roger is doing high-end cabs with a custom Eminence 3012-derivative woofer and a very nice midrange cone. My cab certainly isn't going to be all things to all people and the Baer cabs look like very strong contenders for those who prefer a very high quality paper cone midrange.
 
#112
DukeLeJeune said:
Thank you, Eric.

The 3015LF just doesn't sound as good in the midrange as the 3012 series, to my ears anyway, and finding a compression driver that will go down low enough to meet it is a challenge. Of course I could use a cone, but then I'd just be replicating the work of others. I want to do things that put new choices on the menu.

Okay for loading my big 190-pound home audio speakers in and out the back of my Scion, I use a "slippy board". It's a four-foot lightweight plywood board (reinforced longitudinally on the underside with 1x2 white pine "rails") that's covered with the slickest cloth I could find at the fabric store. I can slide the speakers up or down it, and never have to actually lift them. Go with the longest slippy board you can comfortably fit into your truck.

* * * *

By the way, another cabinet line that I just read up on last night which looks very good to me is Baer Amplification. Roger is doing high-end cabs with a custom Eminence 3012-derivative woofer and an especially nice Faital midrange cone. My cab certainly isn't going to be all things to all people and the Baer cabs look like very strong contenders for those who prefer a very high quality paper cone midrange.
Click to expand...

Not to derail the thread, but my " slippy " board is actually one of those heavy duty plastic matts that go under desks and chairs roll around on. I cut one up to match the inside of my Scion, and just tilt my 215 cab in and out, while sliding it on the mat. The bottom has tons of little grabber feet so it does'nt slide around while pushing the cab in and out. Now, back to the thread !
 
#113
Duke;

Do a mid horn. It's been fiddled with, but the 6nm410 with a mid horn and cd/high horn and your attention tot he crossover ought to be a marked improvement over the fEarful in many ways (Pattern control, more available midrange headroom, etc).

The increased sensitivity of the mid horn combined with the waveguide, and a 3015LF (possibly modified for more sensitivity akin to your 3012 mod), at 4 ohms, ought to be the perfect medium format cabinet. Although expensive as heck with the 3-way crossover.
 
#114
KJung said:
I actually did not compare the 12/6 to other 'normal' 112's. I used the 12/6 as another example of what I call a 'super 112'. So, I agree with you completely. My phrasing might have been confusing in that post.

While the tone of the 12/6 cabs is not particularly my thing (maybe due to the various crossover designs I've heard... the mid response is just too smooth and 'polite' to my ear), the low end just thunders. However, with the 8ohm impedance, and also the larger size and even more deep low end, the 12/6 (at least the 4 or 5 that I've heard... I have a clip up on one of them) is not in the right tonal nor physical format direction for me. I think Duke's tighter voicing of his proprietary 3012LF 4ohm, and that crossover point up a bit more than the 12/6's to allow some of that upper mid content to come from the driver, combined with that killer crossover and big horn, is the sweet spot for me with these 'super 112's' regarding voicing.
Click to expand...

Ken, I had looked on your youtube page several times for a posting of a 12/6 to no avail. I do see your 1212/6 posting...am I missing something?
 
#115
Billy Low said:
Ken, I had looked on your youtube page several times for a posting of a 12/6 to no avail. I do see your 1212/6 posting...am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I think I had a 12/6/1 clip up for a while, but it sounded so close to the 1212/6/1 that I thought it was redundant and took it down.

Here is a nice audio clip of a 12/6 (I was using an Edirol audio recorder and iComposition before I got the Zoom Q3 and switched to the video clips on Youtube), with the 3012LF driver and the very nice Faital mid driver crossed over at 800hz.. This has become the LDS's kind of 'default' spec for the 12/6. Really nice to my ears, although Duke's cab is more to my liking for my tone goals (i.e., the Thunderchild has a little more low mid punch and bite up top)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#116
KJ,

Can you run some distortion through the Thunderchild at some point and let us know how it goes? Not sure if that is or is not recommended, but it seems like a useful test.

Also, knowing the sensitivity and amount of padding that has to go into that crossover I would expect the horn to be pretty safe with distortion.
 
#117
rpsands said:
KJ,

Can you run some distortion through the Thunderchild at some point and let us know how it goes? Not sure if that is or is not recommended, but it seems like a useful test.

Also, knowing the sensitivity and amount of padding that has to go into that crossover I would expect the horn to be pretty safe with distortion.
Click to expand...

That's not really my thing, but I'll try it out with the tubetone dialed in with my RH450. I assume with the horn set at that 3.5K rolloff, it would sound pretty nice.
 
#118
Thanks for the PM. I have heard all of your clips and comparisons between the Thunderchild and the HT 112er. When I consider the weight differential, it's a no brainer. Anybody looking for an HT112 er with padded cover?
 
#119
Virgil said:
Thanks for the PM. I have heard all of your clips and comparisons between the Thunderchild and the HT 112er. When I consider the weight differential, it's a no brainer. Anybody looking for an HT112 er with padded cover?
Click to expand...

I kinda thought you might like this one and happened to see your 'weight issue post'. That HT112ER is a simply beautiful sounding cab also, but if the weight is a bit much, this one MORE than hangs with it to my ear, and is actually a bit better of a stand-alone with a micro, given its ability to take some power (just like the HT112ER), but its 4ohm impedance, which means the typical 400-600 watt micro just kills with it.
 
#120
rpsands said:
Duke;

Do a mid horn. It's been fiddled with, but the 6nm410 with a mid horn and cd/high horn and your attention tot he crossover ought to be a marked improvement over the fEarful in many ways (Pattern control, more available midrange headroom, etc).

The increased sensitivity of the mid horn combined with the waveguide, and a 3015LF (possibly modified for more sensitivity akin to your 3012 mod), at 4 ohms, ought to be the perfect medium format cabinet. Although expensive as heck with the 3-way crossover.
Click to expand...

As the cost and weight of a 3015LF-based cab climbs, it starts having to compete with a 2 x 3012LF cab. In my opinion the sweet spot for the 3015LF would be a two-way, and I have not yet found an economical way to offer a worthy alternative to the fEarful and its cousins.
 
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