Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,068
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
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AudioKinesis 112 Cab
- Thread starter KJung
- Start date
- Status
Here is the clip. IMO, it does a pretty good job of communicating what this cab sounds like. I particularly like the 'gentle treble roll-off' tone (at least solo) with my bright, aggressive Sadowsky... nice warm tone!
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I'm diggin' the F500 a lot. With the VPF, you can widen the footprint to sound quite similar to the Puma500. However, the slightly tighter frequency footprint seems to line up nicely with this big sounding little cab, and the VLE control (basically a variable lo pass filter) gives you a bit more control over that big horn to really dial it in. (not that it needs much with the voicing switch on the cab.
That Puma also just sounds SO good at home solo (and also in low volume, low 'complexity' jazz type contexts), but when you really get wumpin' that wide footprint can be a bit much regarding punch and SPL.
IMO.
You can actually hear some stuff in the room shaking around a bit at the lowest notes! Pretty amazing for a little box, and I did not dial any additional low end in at all. Both heads seems reasonably flat when set neutral, with the Puma having a more extended low end and a smidge of a dip in the upper mids (hence the creamy, deep, smooth tone and that 'treble floating above the sound' sort of vibe) and the F500 has, as mentioned above, a tighter bass (rolls off, hi passes higher than the Puma), and a bit of a bump and a bit more character (distortion) in the midrange, making it punch and burp and grind a bit more.
FYI when listening to the clip.
FYI when listening to the clip.
Yeah, definitely prefer the F500 ( F1 ) tone with that cab. The F1/F500 head never ceases to amaze me with just about any cab I use it with. Please use this head/cab on a gig with no FOH and let us know how it cuts through.
Yeah, definitely prefer the F500 ( F1 ) tone with that cab. The F1/F500 head never ceases to amaze me with just about any cab I use it with. Please use this head/cab on a gig with no FOH and let us know how it cuts through.
Will do!
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Eric, I don't think I have the solution you're looking for, and I really wish I did.
Ken's description of my woofer vs the stock 8-ohm 3012LF is better than what I could offer.
If I were to do an 8-ohm version, it would be would be a little better in the mids and highs but would cost about a hundred bucks more. The stock 3012LF calls for a lower crossover frequency, which is actually better from a radiation pattern matchup standpoint, but I'd have to go with a more expensive compression driver because of that lower crossover frequency. Also, the stock 3012LF wants to be in a bigger box; I could keep the same box size, but we'd be missing out on some of the B-string goodness that woofer has to offer.
I think the fEarful 15/6 or Barefaced Big One, or custom LDS 15/6 cab are better candidates for your needs than my cab. They play louder, go deeper, aren't too much heavier (45 pounds for the Big One) and are 8-ohm loads. And/or maybe consider a folding hand cart.
That's pretty much what I was shooting for, thanks!
Well, actually I haven't, sorry guys. Ken's is as good as it gets for now.
The price is seven hundred bucks plus shipping, with $350 deposit to start the order, with current estimated delivery time6 weeks.
The pre-order price was $600, and I still asked for the $350 up front. Those guys helped me get over the initial hump of having to order a production run of custom woofers, and they did it based on faith in Passinwind's description of the prototype, and I'm very grateful to them as well as to Passinwind - without whom this probably never would have happened.
* * * *
Ken, that clip really sounds awesome. Thank you very much for posting it, and thank you very much for all you've done for me and my little business here.
Good stuff for good people ... glad to support a small project getting off the ground.
I remember when you emailed about offering a refund due to delays ... no way ... I had high hopes this would be a real winner based on Jimmy and PassinWind's comments as well as great conversation with you directly (talking about my Meyer cab experiment and such) during which you humbly suggested you took the 'horn out of the horn' ... well ... Ken just confirmed it ... and Ken hates horns.
Congratulations ... looking forward to mine.
+1!
Plus, this is the perfect time for me to be in this market; I just moved from Vermont (where I could haul a big rig to a venue pretty easily) to New York, where I, well, can't. Loud, light, and portable are now paramount, and the more full-range nature of the cab and excellent dispersion is also very helpful for the small stages and coffeehouses I tend to play electric cello in.
So Duke, how would you differentiate capabilities of Thunder Child against a similar idea with a 10-inch woofer - strictly for lower volume gigs where primary goals are tone and low weight?
edit: would be for electric and acoustic bass guitar
edit: would be for electric and acoustic bass guitar
Here is a little clip of this cab with my Alleva-Coppolo 60's style J, the warm and fat sounding Markbass LMII head (set completely flat), and the wonderful Thunderchild cab, with the top end set to the gentle 3.5K roll-off (so, a bit different from the bright stainless steel roundwound aggressive ash/maple Sadowsky tone).
The strings are reasonably new DR Lo Rider Nickel roundwounds, and the bass has the preamp engaged, but set flat (i.e., no bass or treble boost). I have the passive tone control rolled off about 25% to further smooth the top end.
I recorded this a bit off axis, and it sounds great. I hope you can hear the wonderful growl of that bass, and the note definition, which combined with the deep, clear bass makes this a winner for this type of tone.
The tune is a simple little slow bossa 'music minus 1' version of 'Stella By Starlight'.
How about that hi tech recording process.... turn on the camera, start the music minus one track, and hope I can sit down before the downbeat
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Edit: To be honest, I haven't gotten my Mouse to sound like I like out of the cab at this point... a bit too much down low for that massively low end voiced instrument. However, I am one who likes that 'DB throught the little GK combo' tone... mids and growl versus huge and open, so that might just be personal taste. I'll mess with it over the next few days and post up. The clip I have up of my Mouse through the TC rig (which is very mid voiced) is my 'gold standard' for how I like that instrument to sound. FYI.
The strings are reasonably new DR Lo Rider Nickel roundwounds, and the bass has the preamp engaged, but set flat (i.e., no bass or treble boost). I have the passive tone control rolled off about 25% to further smooth the top end.
I recorded this a bit off axis, and it sounds great. I hope you can hear the wonderful growl of that bass, and the note definition, which combined with the deep, clear bass makes this a winner for this type of tone.
The tune is a simple little slow bossa 'music minus 1' version of 'Stella By Starlight'.
How about that hi tech recording process.... turn on the camera, start the music minus one track, and hope I can sit down before the downbeat
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Edit: To be honest, I haven't gotten my Mouse to sound like I like out of the cab at this point... a bit too much down low for that massively low end voiced instrument. However, I am one who likes that 'DB throught the little GK combo' tone... mids and growl versus huge and open, so that might just be personal taste. I'll mess with it over the next few days and post up. The clip I have up of my Mouse through the TC rig (which is very mid voiced) is my 'gold standard' for how I like that instrument to sound. FYI.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
I actually have, and that gets me a bit closer (pretty cool how it kind of chops off the deepest low end). The Mouse type instruments (semi hollow body with piezo pickups and wooden bridges) are a bit fussy, given that huge low end and very little midrange information coming out of that piezo pickup. It's not that it sounds bad at all, just need to mess with the EQ a bit to 'bring the wood out' in the tone. Just need to find the right mix and match.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
I'm afraid we'd have to choose between tone and weight. Keeping the same type crossover and horn/compression driver, we would only save about 4.5 pounds by going with a 10" Deltalite and shrinking the cab down to 1.4 cubic feet, assuming we stick with 1/2" plywood.
I am looking at other solutions that would allow a greater weight reduction, hopefully while minimizing the tonal compromise - but the timeframe for working on it is getting pushed back, as filling orders will take priority.
If one were to custom design a 10" woofer that had similar excursion characteristics to the 3012LF (a 3010LF if you will) but extended fairly smoothly up to 2khz, you could probably shave a lot of overall cost (by crossing over at 2khz or even a little higher) and a bit of weight. The downside is the sacrifice or probably around 3db of sensitivity and the investment in making the 3010LF/HO happen. Not too likely.
With existing 10" woofer offerings, I don't see it as an option, to be honest. The deltalite is so peaky in the upper mids that you're not going to get as hi-fi performance out of it without substantial modifications, and it has insufficient excursion as well. The only real reason to move down to a 10" woofer would be to make pattern control and crossover design easier, but none of the existing high powered 10" woofers are suitable without modifications.
Not that deltalites don't sound OK, they're just really aggressive in the mids.
Something like the 10BR60 with a neo magnet and a bit more thermal power handling would be just the ticket. It's really a shame there aren't more 10" woofers with that kind of voicing.
It is possible Duke's wizardry could flatten the Deltalite's 2khz peak out with some zobel stuff, but that's beyond my ability to guess. It still doesn't cure the itty bitty excursion (about 1/6th the displacement limited power handling of Duke's woofer).
With existing 10" woofer offerings, I don't see it as an option, to be honest. The deltalite is so peaky in the upper mids that you're not going to get as hi-fi performance out of it without substantial modifications, and it has insufficient excursion as well. The only real reason to move down to a 10" woofer would be to make pattern control and crossover design easier, but none of the existing high powered 10" woofers are suitable without modifications.
Not that deltalites don't sound OK, they're just really aggressive in the mids.
Something like the 10BR60 with a neo magnet and a bit more thermal power handling would be just the ticket. It's really a shame there aren't more 10" woofers with that kind of voicing.
It is possible Duke's wizardry could flatten the Deltalite's 2khz peak out with some zobel stuff, but that's beyond my ability to guess. It still doesn't cure the itty bitty excursion (about 1/6th the displacement limited power handling of Duke's woofer).
Duke, I've just listened carefully to Ken' youtube clips thru a good set of cans - I really like what I hear !!! 
Gone forth and back to the other cabs, just for comparison, let me just say, that's the way a bass cab is supposed to sound like, deep not boomy, clear and articulate, but not harsh. And as other have remarked, close your eyes and you'll never know there's that big horn in there....
Me likes, very much
Gone forth and back to the other cabs, just for comparison, let me just say, that's the way a bass cab is supposed to sound like, deep not boomy, clear and articulate, but not harsh. And as other have remarked, close your eyes and you'll never know there's that big horn in there....
Me likes, very much
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
The Deltalite's peak can be addressed in the crossover, so it's just an inconvenience, not a deal-killer.
* * * *
Going back to a comment Ken made a few posts up:
"I recorded this a bit off axis, and it sounds great."
One of my goals is for the off-axis energy to be very similar to the on-axis energy. This helps keep the tonal balance more consistent around the room. Also as you go from one room to another, the relative level of direct and reverberant energy changes, so if the reverberant energy sounds a lot like the direct energy then there is less change in tone from one room to another. I'll have to wait for more feedback to see if I got this right, but Thunderchild should be better than most cabs in this respect. In fact part of the reason the clips sound good is that the reverberant energy in the room (which the mic is of course picking up, even moreso if it's an omni) is similar to the direct sound.
I've gotta say, that F500 sounds PERFECT with that cab listening to that clip.
What an amp, what a cab!
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