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AudioKinesis 1x12 Cab Part Two

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#901
CDweller said:
Question for Ken- not sure if you covered this-

TC112 with a WW Ultra- any experience? Coming down to a choice between the TC112 and the Acme full range 12, heads are the fore-mentioned WW Ultra, and an RS750. This is for gigging around NYC using public transpo and walking, so the lightweight w/full range functionality is key. DB and electric.
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CDweller,
As Ken mentioned I have that exact combination. Ken and I only experimented with the older Acme Low B2 and the Woods Ultra and I wasn't fond of that match for DB. The Acme Low B1 was a great match with DB, to small for EB.

Ken has the scoop on the new Acme cab, so I can't speak to that, but the Ultra and the Thunderchild 112 is a match made in heaven, and this is from a guy who owns a EA VL 208 which is now resting comfortably at my house.

Ric
 
#902
KJung said:
:p Since I'm in a bit of a 'super 12' frenzy at the moment, and since Roger is a TB friend of mine, I believe he will be sending me one to compare, review, put up clips, etc. I don't know when that will happen though.
Click to expand...

I'll be very interested to hear what you think. I can't really offer too many opinions here. Just haven't been a big 12 fan.
However, I've spent a lot of time with Rogers box and compared it next to some of my favorite speaker boxes, regardless of box or speaker size. The Baer ML112 just killed a number of them, and had much more volume than I eve expected from the box size. But again, I haven't used the TC.
(but I'd really like to)

I also used a few different heads, so I'll be very interested in how you think the box sounds with the F500 or WW Ultra.
 
#904
KJung said:
I think the increase upper mid dispersion of the 6" loaded mid cabs is due primarily to the lower crossover point (I think typically 700 or 800hz) versus what I think is around 1K for Duke.
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Minor correction: My crossover between 12" woofer and 90 by 50 degree horn is up around 2 kHz. This is higher than the theoretical ideal, but because the woofer is not pistonic it's not as bad as rigid piston theory would predict, so the blend is still pretty good. But in that upper-mid region at least, the pattern is indeed narrower than we'd get with a 6" midrange.
 
#905
DukeLeJeune said:
Minor correction: My crossover between 12" woofer and 90 by 50 degree horn is up around 2 kHz. This is higher than the theoretical ideal, but because the woofer is not pistonic it's not as bad as rigid piston theory would predict, so the blend is still pretty good. But in that upper-mid region at least, the pattern is indeed narrower than we'd get with a 6" midrange.
Click to expand...

Thanks Duke. I figured you would fix up anything not accurate in that post.

I am one who feels the upper midrange dispersion issue is GROSSLY overstated by a few on this site regarding bass guitar backline. However, your cab seems to be toward the top of the heap regarding the upper midrange spreading a bit more to the side of the cab on stage.... surely not a bad thing.

Also, one of the reasons I love your cab so much is the TONAL NATURE of the upper midrange, and I'll gladly give up a bit of nearfield spread in that area for that more 'top of the driver' tone.

I find your cab almost a perfect compromise between upper midrange tonality and dispersion... just perfect to me!
 
#906
B String said:
I'll be very interested to hear what you think. I can't really offer too many opinions here. Just haven't been a big 12 fan.
However, I've spent a lot of time with Rogers box and compared it next to some of my favorite speaker boxes, regardless of box or speaker size. The Baer ML112 just killed a number of them, and had much more volume than I eve expected from the box size. But again, I haven't used the TC.
(but I'd really like to)

I also used a few different heads, so I'll be very interested in how you think the box sounds with the F500 or WW Ultra.
Click to expand...

The cabs I call 'super12's' have really changed the game with 12's. Most of us could never do most gigs with a single, traditional two way 112. However, with the introduction of the fEarful 12/6, Andy's Acme112 line, Duke's Thunderchild, to a slightly lesser extent, the Bergantino HT112ER (kind of an 'almost super 12' in capability), and possibly the Baer 12/6 (haven't heard that yet), many are now able to do a 210+ level gig with a single 112, with more low end than virtually any 210, and more absolute volume. I feel the Thunderchild can keep up with any gig on which I previously used my Epifani 310UL. Not 'quite' the low end, but pretty close, and max volume is the same given around 500 honest watts of input. Very impressive.

Duke's custom 4ohm driver that has amazing power handling combined with massive mechanical capability, and relatively high sensitivity due to the impedance, makes his cab IMO the 'top of the heap' for those looking for maximum volume and articulation driven by a typical micro head (400-600 watts). The Acme112's low end (and more aggressive top end in the two way version) is intoxicating, and is a bit of a different thing that I also like quite a bit.
 
#907
KJung said:
...... However, your cab seems to be toward the top of the heap regarding the upper midrange spreading a bit more to the side of the cab on stage.... surely not a bad thing.
Click to expand...

Ken ,
I find it really interesting that the things the we both like about Dukes cabinet apply so well to either Double Bass or Electric Bass. That sideways spread from the Thunderchilds horn is perfect for me because I always have to be of axis with the upright or it's likely to feedback. The TC 112 has such great of axis dispersion that you can hear lots of definition even it you're way off to the side.


KJung said:
Also, one of the reasons I love your cab so much is the TONAL NATURE of the upper midrange, and I'll gladly give up a bit of nearfield spread in that area for that more 'top of the driver' tone.
Click to expand...

The upper midrange frequencies are what make a Double Bass sound articulate and clear. Dukes horn gives an Acoustic Bass what it needs to have the proper attack and release of each note. Without that you can't distinguish a bass line.


KJung said:
I find your cab almost a perfect compromise between upper midrange tonality and dispersion... just perfect to me!
Click to expand...

As do I, using both DB and EB. It completely solves the acoustical challenges that different rooms and concert halls present.

Ric
 
#908
KJung said:
The cabs I call 'super12's' have really changed the game with 12's. Most of us could never do most gigs with a single, traditional two way 112. However, with the introduction of the fEarful 12/6, Andy's Acme112 line, Duke's Thunderchild, to a slightly lesser extent, the Bergantino HT112ER (kind of an 'almost super 12' in capability), and possibly the Baer 12/6 (haven't heard that yet), many are now able to do a 210+ level gig with a single 112, with more low end than virtually any 210, and more absolute volume. I feel the Thunderchild can keep up with any gig on which I previously used my Epifani 310UL. Not 'quite' the low end, but pretty close, and max volume is the same given around 500 honest watts of input. Very impressive.
Click to expand...

Y'know K, the main thing I don't like about you, is you always seem to get there before me, so I end up just simply agreeing with you. And once again.... I agree with you. (bastred!)

I took Rogers "super 12" to an outdoor gig I would usually bring the UL310 to. Nobody could believe how much volume and low end I was getting. Again, I'd really like to try out a TC cab. Maybe someone in LA will have one I could check out.

I do have to say however that the UL310 might still be just a nose in front of the "super 12" boxes. Maybe its just that I'm so partial to my UL310. Also, don't forget. The first "super 12" box may have been the Bergantino HT112. Aside from the lack of big low end, (very small box) its still quite an amazing little box.
 
#910
steve_rolfeca said:
That's funny. The thing I like about Ken, is that he gets there before us...

...and then posts informative videos on YouTube!
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+1
Ken's been "getting there" before me for over 20 years. I've been fortunate that way. It's saved me a great deal of time and money. Thanks Ken
He's not one to keep a lot of gear sitting around collecting dust. He shares the benefits of his knowledge with other players.
 
#911
Ric Vice said:
+1
Ken's been "getting there" before me for over 20 years. I've been fortunate that way. It's saved me a great deal of time and money. Thanks Ken
He's not one to keep a lot of gear sitting around collecting dust. He shares the benefits of his knowledge with other players.
Click to expand...

Really!?!?! Do we really need a Kjung love fest here?! If Ken were all that wonderful, he'd let me borrow his TC112. That way we could all benefit even more from his knowledge..... If only he were really THAT nice....... (is it working?)
 
#913
:D I tell you what guys, Ric Vice and I go WAY back together, and since we live in very different gigging worlds (with Ric doing primarily DB gigs with the cats playing stuff they love) and me playing casuals on EB (actually with many of the same cats, but in my case, they are usually slumming for money and depressed on the gigs that I would be called to do:D), it is very fun to do the yin and yang with gear with Ric.

We get together a couple of times a year now since we no longer live in the same town. I bring all kinds of stuff for him to try, and he lets my play his immaculate 59 P bass and is vintabe B15.

Not a bad deal for both of us.

And, on a side note, just did a pretty full gig report on the new Acme112 in the Acme FullRange thread if anyone from Thunderchild land is interested. Totally different cab, performance and vibe... another quite different flavor of good!
 
#914
I had a little fun at band practice last night. The guys whom I play with are used to me showing up with different gear all the time, and although this is a new band for me (an AC/DC tribute band, in fact), I've played with two of the guys in another band for years. After bringing mostly different Ampeg rigs, last night, I decided to take the TC112AF. I was going to take the F500, as this is the head that I've been using the most with the Thunderchild, but since this was an AC/DC band, I opted for my RH750 (so that I could dial in some emulated tube drive :D).

As I walk in with my basses and amp over one shoulder, and the TC112AF in one hand, I hear "What do you have this time?" and "Where's the rest of your rig?" I didn't say much, just set about getting everything plugged in and ready to go. Two more comments catch my ear, "Well, I guess we can turn down if we have to," (this from a guitar player, if you can believe it!), followed by, "Aw man, I gotta feel it to be able to play this stuff!" from the drummer. I just smile, and keep going about my business.

The band fires up High Voltage, and a few bars in, everyone is staring at my rig in amazement. One of the guitar players nearly stopped playing. We get done with the first song, and I hear, "What d'you got in that thing!" and "Well, alright, then!" :D During our first break, I have one of the guitar players pick up the cab, and he was equally shocked at the light weight.

I have to say, I wasn't sure how well this cab would do in a band setting where I am competing with two Marshall half stacks (and they do crank 'em a bit!) and a LOUD drummer, and I wasn't sure how well it would do a gritty/grindy rock tone. Based upon my noodling around on my own, I felt that it would do pretty well, and I am happy to say that this little rig worked amazingly well in that setting. Not only was the volume more than adequate (I had plenty of throttle left to go), but the tone was just dead on. The Thunderchild has that nice, strong low-mid presence, and while it is a very uncolored cab on its own, it takes to external colorization very well. I had the gain on the RH750 about halfway up, the TubeTone about halfway up, and the EQ set to the factory default. The bass was an alder/rosewood Celinder VP4 (P-bass) with SS rounds (MTD brand), and again, this package just nailed it!

So there you go! In addition to being a great cab for double bass and a great cab for dance/pop/Motown, the Thunderchild is also one heck of a rocker! :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool: :D
 
#915
Hey Tom
Glad to hear it worked so well. I've been sure with the TC that given the right eq and coloration put in that it would work well in most EB situations. It is starting out with a pretty neutral palette---but as you stated---you pair it with the right gear for a given situation and it hangs in there. Admirably. ( I can't wait to try the 15, though!)
 
#917
tombowlus said:
So there you go! In addition to being a great cab for double bass and a great cab for dance/pop/Motown, the Thunderchild is also one heck of a rocker!
Click to expand...

Cool Tom. Lately I've been using my Carvin BX500 for those contexts pretty happily, although AC/DC is a bit harder than my "rock" situations tend to be.
 
#918
I have one of the 115AFs on order as well. Question for you guys; my amp is a Streamliner 900 which would be pushing more watts than the cab should take.
For those that use the same amp, where do you guys keep the master volume so as to avoid any issues with melting the speaker on the 112?
 
#919
You're really gonna have to do that more or less by ear.
It has more to do with right hand attack, eq on your bass, eq on your amp, than some particular gain setting.

Be judicious, and you should be fine.
 
#920
ghiadub said:
I have one of the 115AFs on order as well. Question for you guys; my amp is a Streamliner 900 which would be pushing more watts than the cab should take.
For those that use the same amp, where do you guys keep the master volume so as to avoid any issues with melting the speaker on the 112?
Click to expand...

I routinely use a 1000+ watt power amp with my TCAF. Just listen to the rig, don't try to do it with your eyes. ;)
 
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