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AudioKinesis 1x12 Cab Part Two

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#941
KJung said:
Cool! That little Schro 15 is a great little box, and I'd actually put it on my list of 'Super 12's', since it is about the same size as these other executions.

And yes, the little Schro is 'all punch' for better or worse, and just loud as the beejeebers because of that... very attenuated deep low end, but a beautiful upper bass punch, and a lot of brightness and grind up top. I dig it also.

I think when you get the Thunderchild on a gig, it will be a bit louder than you think, but in a different way than the Schro for sure.

One of the reasons I (and others) love the Thunderchild so much is that it balances all these tonalities really well. If I had to create a continuum of these 'stand alone capable' small cabs, ranging for the 'least punchy/most full' to 'most midrange voiced and punchy' it would be:

Acme - fEarful12/6 - Thunderchild12 - Baer ML112* - Schro15L+

The Thunderchild sits right in the middle to me... plenty of low end, nice 'top of the driver' midrange, lots of clarity in the upper mids/low treble.

*Note: Going on other reviews of the Baer... won't be able to check one out until Monday.
Click to expand...

Yea Ken- I'm playing in LA tonight with Don Rickles. Yes, Don Rickles. It's my first gig with the cab and it's with a big band... I'm playing my '78 jazz. The sound is totally filling the stage. (We're in a big theater... 2000 seater) So much so that the horns (on the other side of the stage) said they had too much bass in their monitors... But I wasn't in the monitors :).

I'm certainly not cranking at all, but both ports are open and it's just spreading everywhere without losing any clarity.

I may try throwing a plug in to see how that changes the tone. (thanks Arnopol)

Very cool box! So smooth and clear! Can't wait to hear my upright with it.
 
#942
I should also note that while my Schroeder is up for sale, I'm still quite tempted to hold onto it when I need to kick with a loud band. It's an awesome cab too. Just a different flavor.
 
#945
luvmuziq said:
Wanna make sure that i read right. So the thunderchild15 is going to cost close to a 1000 bucks? well, by the time i'm an old man, i should be able to afford one. Better start saving now.
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Good point. If neodymium hadn't skyrocketed, instead of $950 the price would be $800 for the 115. Actually, since March, the cost of the neodymium woofer and compression driver in the 115 has gone up by more than $150, so it costs you and me both more, and I make less profit.

I would really like to offer something to bass players who don't have the big bucks. Do you think there would be any interest in a barebones kit? Drivers + crossover + cabinet plans. The buyer would build & finish the cabinet, outfit it with hardware that he buys (I have no desire to warehouse & resell cabinet hardware), and install the crossover and drivers and hook everything up. I'm not allowed to offer my custom woofers in a kit, so we'd have to use off-the-shelf woofers. Fortunately there are some very nice ones available, like the 8-ohm Kappalite 3015 (non-LF), and at a more affordable price point the 4-ohm Legend CA154.

I've been kicking this idea around for a while, so let me know what you think.
 
#946
luvmuziq said:
Wanna make sure that i read right. So the thunderchild15 is going to cost close to a 1000 bucks? well, by the time i'm an old man, i should be able to afford one. Better start saving now.
Click to expand...

Have you been to a music store lately? Quality costs money. Prices of common cabs:
- most 8*10's: $1,000-$1,800
- most 2*12's: $800-$1,800
- most 4*12's: $1,000-$1,500
- most 6*10's: $900-$1,400
- most 4*10's: $500-$1,300
- most 2*15's: $1,000-$1,200
- most 2*10's: $400-$1,200
- Uber 1288T: $1,120
- Epifani 310: $1,000
- most 115's: $500-$960
- most 112's: $500-$800

Until you get into the higher-end 4*10's and above, you'll need at least a pair of cabs to keep up with the Thunderchild 115. Most cabs that cost $500 or under can't keep up with it even if you DO have a pair. Suddenly, $1,000 doesn't look so bad.

And literally nothing of comparable performance, is going to be as compact and light in weight.
 
#947
+1. Youd need an excellent 210 to produce the same volume as Duke's TC12. An SWR golight, Berg or Epi 210 will run pretty much the same price as Duke's box, weigh more, take up more space and (IMO) not sound as satisfying. IMO there is no real "off the shelf" competition. fEarful and similar custom cabs and a couple of other small btq builders are in a small circle with Audiokinesis. None of it is cheap, but at least the watts to push the boxes are now inexpensive.




steve_rolfeca said:
Have you been to a music store lately? Quality costs money. Prices of common cabs:
- most 8*10's: $1,000-$1,800
- most 2*12's: $800-$1,800
- most 4*12's: $1,000-$1,500
- most 6*10's: $900-$1,400
- most 4*10's: $500-$1,300
- most 2*15's: $1,000-$1,200
- most 2*10's: $400-$1,200
- Uber 1288T: $1,120
- Epifani 310: $1,000
- most 115's: $500-$960
- most 112's: $500-$800

Until you get into the higher-end 4*10's and above, you'll need at least a pair of cabs to keep up with the Thunderchild 115. Most cabs that cost $500 or under can't keep up with it even if you DO have a pair. Suddenly, $1,000 doesn't look so bad.

And literally nothing of comparable performance, is going to be as compact and light in weight.
Click to expand...
 
#948
DukeLeJeune said:
Good point. If neodymium hadn't skyrocketed, instead of $950 the price would be $800 for the 115. Actually, since March, the cost of the neodymium woofer and compression driver in the 115 has gone up by more than $150, so it costs you and me both more, and I make less profit.

I would really like to offer something to bass players who don't have the big bucks. Do you think there would be any interest in a barebones kit? Drivers + crossover + cabinet plans. The buyer would build & finish the cabinet, outfit it with hardware that he buys (I have no desire to warehouse & resell cabinet hardware), and install the crossover and drivers and hook everything up. I'm not allowed to offer my custom woofers in a kit, so we'd have to use off-the-shelf woofers. Fortunately there are some very nice ones available, like the 8-ohm Kappalite 3015 (non-LF), and at a more affordable price point the 4-ohm Legend CA154.

I've been kicking this idea around for a while, so let me know what you think.
Click to expand...

What price point are you thinking?
 
#949
"Cost"

This is my *really biased take:*
If $1000 for a cab that'll cover all your gigs is too much, you're not working enough.
To do a job takes tools.
Good tools cost more money than average, or, shoddy tools.

Whether it's SnapOn versus Craftsman; Sadowsky versus Fender-pick your analogy-you should be able to get my point.

In many cases, you tooootallllly don't need SnapOn tools to get the job done acceptably.
I intend no offense at all to those of you who are working players who don't clear the paycheck to fund SnapOn grade tools, but there are certainly many other more affordable options that will get the job done for you.

If your gigging paycheck won't cover high end tools, then you get to decide if covering the investment in higher grade tools is worth it to you to save up your day gig paycheck, or heat up your credit card.

As a long time player, I can tell you that bassists, and musicians in general are really, really lucky right now to have the wide range of affordable gear to get the job done that we do; along with a great range of higher end stuff that you might find more personally satisfying too.

None of this current high end stuff, whether its the Gig-a-plex 9000 Amplification Module, or the Beef-Master Bass Cab is *a requirement* to be a working player...I'm really grateful that guys like Duke provide stuff that seems priced competitively to other high end choices, and works in ways I find more helpful to me...Cool stuff.

Thanks;)
 
#950
jallenbass said:
What price point are you thinking?
Click to expand...


Interested on that answer as well.

Lord that idea gave me goose bumps all over, then on second thought, it might cost me less just buying a finished product. 'cause after your charge, by the time it gets to robby for one of his composite material which will keep this puppy around 32 lbs and cost of woofer, it'll probably be well over 1000 bucks. so i'm gonna have to keep saving and get one finished. hopefully the design won't change by then cause i love that PA look.

Nevertheless, this idea is genial for we wouldn't be restricted to one type of woofer.
 
#951
DukeLeJeune said:
I would really like to offer something to bass players who don't have the big bucks. Do you think there would be any interest in a barebones kit? Drivers + crossover + cabinet plans. The buyer would build & finish the cabinet, outfit it with hardware that he buys (I have no desire to warehouse & resell cabinet hardware), and install the crossover and drivers and hook everything up. I'm not allowed to offer my custom woofers in a kit, so we'd have to use off-the-shelf woofers. Fortunately there are some very nice ones available, like the 8-ohm Kappalite 3015 (non-LF), and at a more affordable price point the 4-ohm Legend CA154.

I've been kicking this idea around for a while, so let me know what you think.
Click to expand...

Cut kits are where it's at, really. Cutting the wood puts people off more than any other single thing save the crossover build, IME. I just had my local millwright do my last few DIY cabs, which was dirt cheap and saved immense hassle. So my vote would be for a CNC file and/or a really good cutsheet to be included, at the very least.
 
#952
Duke;
If a kit is something you really want to do, you should talk to Leland at speakerhardware.com; he's doing both BFM and Fearful kits and might have good ideas and advise on what works, and seems sale-able.
 
#953
As far as cost---upright players are used to spending goodly amounts of dough. You're dropping $10k on a bass, $2k on a bow $500 to a grand on a head. They'll spend the dough on a good cab if it's function is worth the $. Most of my work is freelance, so even at my age and level of experience word of mouth is everything. And I'd been touring with one artist for a long time, so it's important that I'm perceived in a more versatile light.

After using the TC I've gotten comments that my playing had more thump and physical presence and was bigger and fuller. Now instead of calling a 22 year old with guts for a bebop gig, I'm getting called because my sound functions better. And even though I don't play guts an inch off the board I play bebop better. But if my sound didn't provide the same pulse---
Same with electric. Comments like " the pocket sounds deeper".
As working musicians our gear does affect our ability to get gigs.

And some of the European stuff is a lot more expensive.

33# cab that covers 95% of my gigs. $750? Money well spent.
 
#955
Chef said:
Duke;
If a kit is something you really want to do, you should talk to Leland at speakerhardware.com; he's doing both BFM and Fearful kits and might have good ideas and advise on what works, and seems sale-able.
Click to expand...

+1

I personally think that flat pack kits (pre-cut lumber included) are the way to go. Lots of people are equipped to assemble a well-designed box. Very few are equipped to cut the panels to the desired accuracy.

However, I have no data to back that opinion up. Leland's sales numbers (components only vs the "deluxe" flatpack kits) would give you a good idea of where the interested really lies. He also did some interesting things to make assembling the fEarful flatpack kits easier for home builders (like using biscuits).

One caveat: pricing would be critical with a flatpack kit. My number one choice in a cab, was the Thunderchild, with a 12/6 as a close second. If there'd been a significant price difference, i might have swung either way, but Leland's pricing on a fully-equipped kit made my decision a no- brainer. Why buy a kit, if it's the same price as a professionally-assembled cab?
 
#957
Thing is, Leland is my partner. Previous to Leland I had already invested a lot of time on three different people over maybe a couple years, to plan and provide fEARful cutkits/flatpacks, with only one of them sporadically supplying them to users during the period before Leland and I hooked up.

Also, reduced-size/footprint fEARfuls that are dubbed fearLESS cabs are slated for release soon - plans for which as a few people are aware, that I've been sitting on for a couple years.
 
#958
My take on the whole thing is that you've got a few types of players out there. The guys who're rolling with stacks of used 1990s 4x10 cabs because they're affordable are not going to buy a 700 dollar cab and they're not going to buy an 800 dollar cab.

The guys out there who either make good money gigging or have full time jobs that pay for their hobby are going to buy the tools that do what they want--and the Thunderchild line does what a lot of people want.

As long as the price increases for neo cabs remain incremental rather than multiplicative I think you'll still see them as the primary market.

That said I don't think there's that much market for kits. The savings are just not that great. Probably a lot more of a market for ceramic woofers than for kits, in the bass cab arena.
 
#959
IMO, compared to high quality, off-the-shelf 210s (which IMO are not as satisfying), the TC12 is very competitive, both sonically and fiscally. The only 12s in its' league are the other "super" 12s, and they are in the same price range as well. Comparing it (in terms of either performance or price) to a conventional, 2-way 12 with a "regular" x-max woofer (99% of the stock competition) is like comparing a pack mule to a wild mustang. I fall into the category of "hobbyist who can afford it", and I'm happy to pay top dollar for a top shelf product that allows me to haul less and still sound satisfying.
 
#960
Thank you all VERY MUCH for your responses and encouragement. Passinwind, yeah a cutkit would be most attractive, and I'm looking into a possible source. But it's not Leland, he's Greenboy's partner, and I don't want to try to muscle in. Nor do I want to do something that's virtually a duplication of what the fEarfuls do.

Having investigated this when the future of neodymium drivers was in serious doubt, I concluded that the ceramic magnet replacement for my 12" woofer was the 15" Eminence Legend CA15-4. Four ohms, virtually identical max SPL based on either thermal or mechanical power handling, inexpensive, and a really nice response curve. Downside is weight and the bigger box required. Another possibility is the Kappalite 3015 (non-LF), lightweight with a good combination of characteristics, and fartout-limited to 500 watts or so; this could be just about an 8-ohm equivalent of my Thunderchild 15.

As for pricing, it would be premature for me to toss out numbers. Obviously it's gotta be some balance of competitive and profitable.
 
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