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AudioKinesis 1x12 Cab Part Two

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#121
Loopee's Thundertots will have considerably more top end than that. The Thunderchild with tweet off is -3 dB at 1.8 kHz, and -6 dB at 2.2 kHz, on-axis. The Thundertots will be -3 dB at 2.5 kHz and -6 dB at 4.0 kHz, which isn't anything extraordinary, but is "decent" and probably seldom found in a tweeterless cab with the sort of low-end she can expect. I will be doing some equalizing too, so she won't be hearing the native response of the driver either.


So in "lay" terms, what does that mean exactly....?
 
#122
It means he smoothed out the mid bark and let more native top end of the driver speak than in the horn version. Sounds like he's going right up to the top usable end of the woofer with a gentle rolloff instead of a bark and fart.
 
#123
It means you're going to get upper mids from the driver whereas ours are chopped off so it crosses over gracefully. With the horn off, the woofer in TC sounds a bit muted up there because of the other electronics, whereas yours won't. I suspect rpsands is right - Duke's execution will sound smoother and more even up top than a conventional speaker cabinet.
 
#125
OK, thanks guys....I'm just so useless at tech talk, the minute I see numbers I freak....so just as long as these cabs do what I need them to do is all I'm asking.....I play Blues and Rock and Classic Rock....nothing spectacular but I like a nice bottom...lol...
 
#126
loopee said:
OK, thanks guys....I'm just so useless at tech talk, the minute I see numbers I freak....so just as long as these cabs do what I need them to do is all I'm asking.....I play Blues and Rock and Classic Rock....nothing spectacular but I like a nice bottom...lol...
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I'm kinda curious why you had the tweeter, which is so beautifully executed with the crossover, removed. Especially if (I could be wrong) Duke's most recent version has variable tweet control. Was it simply to decrease the weight? You can certainly get all the bottom you need out of the original design.
 
#127
JxBass said:
I'm kinda curious why you had the tweeter, which is so beautifully executed with the crossover, removed. Especially if (I could be wrong) Duke's most recent version has variable tweet control. Was it simply to decrease the weight? You can certainly get all the bottom you need out of the original design.
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Cabinet weight and height are both high priority considerations for loopee, and she couldn't find what she was looking for elsewhere.

At one point I had planned for the Thundertots to become a regular part of my lineup, but the price of neodymium is such that that's now very unlikely to happen. I don't want to burn through my stash of woofers without making enough money off of them to cover replenishing the supply. I can make more money per woofer by putting them in full-up tweetered cabs.
 
#128
Exactly....weight is really the culprit in my getting the Tots......a Thunderchild would have been perfect if not for the 34lbs.....The Tots will be around 25lbs without the tweet and getting 2 8 ohms Tots gives me the opportunity to take one or two cabs depending on the gig.....The Markbass CMD121P is nice at 30lbs but I don't like the Piezo tweet and when using the NY121 cab I usually take most of the tweet off and that seems to be working pretty good for me and 60 lbs is just too much

I turned 60 yesterday and I have arthritis in my hands but I still want to gig.....I realize that a 4 ohm cab would probably be best altogether but Duke cannot build a Thunderchild for less than 34lbs so the Tots it must be.....Unless Duke has figured out how to build one for less than 30lbs with the tweet.....? The Barefaced Compact is 27lbs but still, it's only an 8 ohm though it's a 15".....I've had a hard time trying to figure out what I should get, so hopefully the Tots will work out for me......
 
#129
loopee said:
Exactly....weight is really the culprit in my getting the Tots......a Thunderchild would have been perfect if not for the 34lbs.....The Tots will be around 25lbs without the tweet and getting 2 8 ohms Tots gives me the opportunity to take one or two cabs depending on the gig.....The Markbass CMD121P is nice at 30lbs but I don't like the Piezo tweet and when using the NY121 cab I usually take most of the tweet off and that seems to be working pretty good for me and 60 lbs is just too much

I turned 60 yesterday and I have arthritis in my hands but I still want to gig.....I realize that a 4 ohm cab would probably be best altogether but Duke cannot build a Thunderchild for less than 34lbs so the Tots it must be.....Unless Duke has figured out how to build one for less than 30lbs with the tweet.....? The Barefaced Compact is 27lbs but still, it's only an 8 ohm though it's a 15".....I've had a hard time trying to figure out what I should get, so hopefully the Tots will work out for me......
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You're in good hands with Duke. He wouldn't build it if he didn't think it would do the job.

Happy birthday! :bassist:
 
#130
JxBass said:
You're in good hands with Duke. He wouldn't build it if he didn't think it would do the job.

Happy birthday! :bassist:
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Agreed! I had a good discussion with Duke today, and he told me a little more about what he had planned for the Thundertots. It's a pretty slick design :D Duke always has some clever ideas on how to adapt to particular applications and needs. Enjoy the rest of your birthday!
 
#131
So assuming "rare earth" prices come back down, and assuming an amp capable of running 2 ohms, how would a Thundertot fare as an extension speaker for a regular Thunderchild 12?

This is not entirely idle - I use the Thunderchild 12 with a Thunderfunk 750 but in one situation I added an Aguilar GS112NT under the Thunderchild, and was quite pleased with the result.
 
#132
Joebone said:
So assuming "rare earth" prices come back down, and assuming an amp capable of running 2 ohms, how would a Thundertot fare as an extension speaker for a regular Thunderchild 12?

This is not entirely idle - I use the Thunderchild 12 with a Thunderfunk 750 but in one situation I added an Aguilar GS112NT under the Thunderchild, and was quite pleased with the result.
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I wouldn't assume the price of neo will ever come down... just have to hope it won't keep going up! The Thundertot seems like it wouldn't be an optimal match, since the top end is being produced from Duke's custom woofer instead of the compression driver, but I'm sure it's better than combining it with dissimilar cabinets. It's not producing only the content below where the Thunderchild's compression driver would take over.

The Thundertot is more Duke's take on a traditional "one-way" speaker, but much more even, squeezing out as much top end as possible with the driver and eliminating any sharp coloring resonances. Duke's impressive background in crossover design helps even when there's not a 2nd driver :D
 
#134
loopee said:
Don't forget that the TC is a 4 ohm and the Tots are 8 ohms and the drivers in the Tots will probably not be reproduced by Duke again.....they are one of a kind
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ya, that sucks, this whole neo thing. but as always, we'll get used to the prices, those who want them will pay whatever they cost, and time will march on.
 
#136
I don't subscribe to the medium-term gloom & doom on rare earth prices - there are plenty of other sources other than China that will likely come on line as prices hover where they are, and they will likely come down a bit again before heading upwards as true supply limits are met.

Otherwise, I was thinking that two 12's and one horn might be a groove, via a Thundertot/child combo, although I didn't realize we were talking about 8-ohm loads for the latter.
 
#137
well, at first I tried to get one Tot with tweet and one without but Duke explained that couldn't be done at this moment.....so I went with 2 without......in any case, at some point down the line, if there's a TC without tweet being built I'll get one too......
 
#138
Just to keep some momentum going on this thread:

I've been lurking for quite some time -- intrigued with the Thunderchild.
But I already have a couple of decent cabs in that solid medium loudness range.

I'd mostly be interested in a Thunderchild 15" -- if it can up the volume ante to something closely approaching a modest 4 x 10 cab.

Duke, do you figure your future TC 15 will at least approach the volume of some 4 x 10s??

TIA
 
#139
pbasswil said:
Just to keep some momentum going on this thread:

I've been lurking for quite some time -- intrigued with the Thunderchild.
But I already have a couple of decent cabs in that solid medium loudness range.

I'd mostly be interested in a Thunderchild 15" -- if it can up the volume ante to something closely approaching a modest 4 x 10 cab.

Duke, do you figure your future TC 15 will at least approach the volume of some 4 x 10s??

TIA
Click to expand...

Well I really can't say for sure, but it's possible. If displacement (fartout) is the limiting factor, the TC115 should be competitive with most 410s. If thermal power handling is the limiting factor, then most 410s will play louder than the TC115. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Looking at it another way, if the TC112 falls somewhere in between a 210 and a 310, then the TC115 (at 2.4 dB higher effiiciency and 3+ dB higher fartout than the TC112) should come pretty close to a 410.

Now in practice most 410s probably have a fair amount of midrange bumpage (which I EQ away in my cabs), so the 410 will probably still be louder overall, hence my hesitancy to go out on a limb and make the claim.
 
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