AudioKinesis 1x12 Cab Part Two

[pbasswil]

... if the TC112 falls somewhere in between a 210 and a 310, then the TC115 ... should come pretty close to a 410.
... most 410s probably have a fair amount of midrange bumpage ... so the 410 will probably still be louder overall,

Thanks for the detailed and measured response. (And thanks to JxBass for the comparison.)

I sure look forward to hearing about how it all pans out, once you get to building them.

We bass players are so lucky to have this level of speaker design available in 2011. (The lumpy-response _crap_ I've played through, over a longish career ...)

 

[rpsands]

Well I really can't say for sure, but it's possible. If displacement (fartout) is the limiting factor, the TC115 should be competitive with most 410s. If thermal power handling is the limiting factor, then most 410s will play louder than the TC115. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Looking at it another way, if the TC112 falls somewhere in between a 210 and a 310, then the TC115 (at 2.4 dB higher effiiciency and 3+ dB higher fartout than the TC112) should come pretty close to a 410.

Now in practice most 410s probably have a fair amount of midrange bumpage (which I EQ away in my cabs), so the 410 will probably still be louder overall, hence my hesitancy to go out on a limb and make the claim.

Duke, you should do a "4x10" setting on your crossover that simulates that ganky midrange crap everyone loves

I know GB had had some luck getting that kind of response out of his 6nd410 with biamping.

 

[kaiser_sosea]

Where does one purchase a Thunderchild?

 

[tombowlus]

Where does one purchase a Thunderchild?

Well, you could probably PM Duke directly here on TalkBass, or else go to the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

You can see the TC112 under "News" and you can also send Duke an e-mail from this page.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Perhaps a fairer comparison will be the TC15 versus other 1 x 15" cabs?

My 12" and 15" cabs will probably be in the same general loudness ballpark as the fEarfuls; mine are a bit more efficient, but the fEarfuls have wider dispersion in the mids which evens things up somewhat. My cabs do not have the bottom end power and authority of a comparable fEarful cab; I'm aiming at a bit different target as far as box size/bass extension/efficiency, more in the interest of offering variety to bass players than because I think my target low-end is inherently "better". If you want the greater low-end power, go with a fEarful.

The woofer I'll be using in my 15" cab falls sort of in between the 3015LF (fEarful 15/6) and 3015 (Barefaced Compact), but arguably comes close to combining some of the best of both: efficiency and frequency response are closer to that of the 3015, and excursion is closer to that of the 3015LF.

 

[JxBass]

My 12" and 15" cabs will probably be in the same general loudness ballpark as the fEarfuls; mine are a bit more efficient, but the fEarfuls have wider dispersion in the mids which evens things up somewhat. My cabs do not have the bottom end power and authority of a comparable fEarful cab; I'm aiming at a bit different target as far as box size/bass extension/efficiency, more in the interest of offering variety to bass players than because I think my target low-end is inherently "better". If you want the greater low-end power, go with a fEarful.

Great description Duke, thanks. True, when I compared my TC12 to my 12/6 the 12/6 did feel a bit fuller down low, but it was real close. Close enough that I kept my Thunderchild and the 12/6 has a new new home.

When I was thinking of "other 1x15 cabs" I had in mind the more traditional 15s, not fEarfuls. I expected the same would hold true for TC15 versus fEarlul/15s as TC12 versus fEarful/12s.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

When I was thinking of "other 1x15 cabs" I had in mind the more traditional 15s, not fEarfuls...

I don't know what woofers are used in other 115s so I can't really compare, sorry. I think the Kappalites and their derivatives are arguably the most "high end" woofers we're likely to find in commercial bass cabs (though I could be wrong), which would imply that the fEarfuls and nEarfuls and Baers and Barefaceds and mine are likely to be pretty strong in their respective categories.

 

[JxBass]

My initial comments were meant as more rhetorical "thinking (typing) out loud", sorry for stirring up too much conjecture.

 

[John D Harris]

My 12" and 15" cabs will probably be in the same general loudness ballpark as the fEarfuls; mine are a bit more efficient, but the fEarfuls have wider dispersion in the mids which evens things up somewhat. My cabs do not have the bottom end power and authority of a comparable fEarful cab; I'm aiming at a bit different target as far as box size/bass extension/efficiency, more in the interest of offering variety to bass players than because I think my target low-end is inherently "better". If you want the greater low-end power, go with a fEarful.

The woofer I'll be using in my 15" cab falls sort of in between the 3015LF (fEarful 15/6) and 3015 (Barefaced Compact), but arguably comes close to combining some of the best of both: efficiency and frequency response are closer to that of the 3015, and excursion is closer to that of the 3015LF.

Sounds like an excellent compromise for my tone goals! I'm looking forward to reviews of the TC115.

 

[thudfromafar]

bumping for more fun

 

[JxBass]

bumping for more fun

Yeah, I've been waiting for a new post too I expect when the TC15 and/or 212 comes out there will be a tsunami of fun comments

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Wish I had more fun stuff to post...

A lot of people have been asking me about whether/when/how much the price of the Thunderchild will rise because of the rising cost of neodymium magnets. The price will go up on June 1st by $50 for the Thunderchild, to $750. Also the rear-firing tweeter option, for the acoustic-friendly version, will go up by $20 to an additional $120 over the regular price (it uses a neo-magnet tweeter).

My plan is to bring in the TC115 at an introductory price of $850, but that price is based on the "old" neo woofer costs. The price will go up to $900 on August 1st.

For the next two weeks I will be out of town first delivering home audio speakers to California and then exhibiting at an audio show in Dallas, so I won't begin formally accepting deposits for the 115 until after I get back, around May 18th.

And in case anyone is wondering, the "acoustic friendly" option will be available for the 115 as well.

Finally, as some of you know all too well, my estimates on delivery times have been optimistic. My apologies for that, and I will work on catching up when I get back from Dallas. Looks like I will have to revise my delivery time estimates, because if anything my workload will be increasing.

 

[Passinwind]

bumping for more fun

All I have is a few more gig reports. I played my first outdoor show of the year last night. It was in a really cool little amphitheater at a local winery. The concrete back wall of the stage is a couple of stories high, so there are none of the classic backless stage issues. The rear firing tweeter worked really well, and again my EUB felt just a little more "acoustic" --what a concept.

After that I went to a late night open mike and set up in a space that looks more or less like a double sized phone booth, with glass on two sides. The second tweeter really seems to help at that place too.

 

[Joebone]

Pardon my exuberance, but I've gotta share...

On a whim I picked up a used Eden WT405 this week, and am blown away by how great it sounds with the Audiokinesis. Gonna take it to my gig on Saturday and see how it fares, but this has seriously gotten my attention. I've been lucky to have a Thunderfunk 750 on the scene, which is a magnificent amp but is also arguably overkill on the power front for most of the jazz/ethnicky stuff I can cover with the one cabinet. The WT405 veers just a bit more toward an old-school presentation but retains the quickness and clarity of the Tfunk, and I can't believe what I'm hearing...this just might be the sound I've been looking for, in all respects. Maybe it's that touch of compression, as I'm generally keeping the compressor dialed in at about 8:00 on the dial? Whatever it is, I'm really liking it a lot.

Yeah, I know I'm using "heavy" amps given the weight/philosophy of the AK, but I just seem happier with what comes out of the cabinet when an old-school power supply is providing the grunt. At least the WT405 does not extend beyond the sides of the AK!

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I would appreciate hearing more about the vertical dispersion of the Thunderchild, in other words, how it performs on gigs with a crowded stage, where you have to almost stand on top of it.

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a TC, and I'm wondering if I need a pair.

My reason is this: I am normally happiest with a single-cab solution, for a variety of reasons. However, in situations where I need to get really loud, I also tend to prefer a taller stack, simply so that I can hear myself more easily.

 

[Musicman20]

Any chance of these hitting the UK? I realise we have the other options here, but I like the overall TC112 design and style, so Id rather go with that.

 

[Passinwind]

I would appreciate hearing more about the vertical dispersion of the Thunderchild, in other words, how it performs on gigs with a crowded stage, where you have to almost stand on top of it.

Almost all of my gigs are like that. The rear firing tweeter in the acoustic-friendly version helps immensely. You can hear it pretty well even standing right next to the cab. I don't play really loud in a rock context much though, FWIW. Keep in mind that the TC112 is 4 ohms, so running a pair restricts amp choices a bit.

 

[5StringPocket]

What's the latest on the TC212? I seem to remember reading that the existing TC112 crossover point would be used with the proprietary TC 12" drivers instead of going with a stock 3012LF and a different crossover. If true this would be good. Anyone (Duke, Jimmy M.) have the skinny on this?

 

[Derek Kiernan]

I think Duke decided that it would be too costly to have two new proprietary drivers (8 instead of 4-ohm) loaded in the 212 with the neo price hikes, especially considering the instability requiring Eminence give daily quotes, which is why Duke offered to build the Thundertots for Loopee using what drivers he had. I'm sure that Duke could clear this up a little bit if the story's different. edit: I meant to say he'll be using the LFs for the 212, not imply that the 212 wasn't happening.


Also, here's a guitar-gig report. My friend played a solo guitar set for a small audience (a bit more than 30) and I could hear everyone saying how it was the most beautiful electric guitar sound they've heard, and how clear and even the sound was through the room. I also heard a number of people commenting on how they were glad to hear it in person, because they didn't think they would ever be able to get that sort of experience listening to it recorded. I thought it was worth mentioning because this seems almost like suspiciously well-informed feedback, but all of it was unprompted conversations among non-musicians who knew nothing about the cabinet.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Almost all of my gigs are like that. The rear firing tweeter in the acoustic-friendly version helps immensely. You can hear it pretty well even standing right next to the cab.

The gig i'm most concerned about, is in a rented movie theatre. It's essentially a backless stage, as the "wall" beneath the screen is actually just a curtain, with a mostly empty space behind it. I wonder how well a rear facing tweeter would work in that space, with no reflective surface behind it.

I've done best there with my Bose L1, which is like wearing a 7' tall set of headphones. Although tilting a single 10/5/1 cab upwards doesn't do the trick there, a vertically-stacked pair of them works better than a single 15 or a 4*10, simply because the tweeter on the top cab ends up nearly 40" off the floor.