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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...
- Thread starter Thor
- Start date
Yeah, at least we can legitimately compare new vs old technology and volume claims.
I brought the TC212 home yesterday and got some interesting feedback from the retailer with whom I had it on consignment. Bearing in mind that this is a guy who's been in the business of bass for a long time and has played a lot of basses and cabs over the years, his take on the TC212 is informative, I think. He actually is what one might consider an expert.
Aesthetics are important in the retail world. Now, this might seem like a no-brainer to most, but I hadn't really experienced the truth of it directly before. He demoed the cab for several folks, all of whom were looking for a 212. All of them said it sounded great, very linear, etc, but they all ultimately decided to go with something else. The question is why? Well, there is no badge, and while very tough, duratex isn't the classiest of exteriors for a bass cab. Given that it was sitting next to Bergantino cabs and the new Genzler cabs, the TC212's aesthetic shortcomings were pretty apparent. Point being, people really do hear with their eyes, especially when thinking of plunking down close to a thousand dollars.
Name recognition is also important. Unfortunately, Audiokinesis is just not a name that the vast majority of bass players have heard before. This, coupled with the aesthetic issue, makes resale to anyone who isn't already familiar with Duke's products, at least for a price that's commensurate with their quality, very difficult.
Lastly, when pushing the cab hard with the new Bergantino head and a (Benavente, I think) 5 string, the cab farted out. Now, this was very interesting to me because when I had the Demeter VTBP-800D head and a Fender Victory Bailey 5 string, I also got the cab to fart out playing the low B, and at low volume. At the time I thought it was the head or maybe something with the bass, but finding out someone else using a five string and hitting the low B made it fart out makes me think it might actually be the cab. I don't know what the settings on the head were, but I know the ports were unplugged, so perhaps that had something to do with it. Either way, the two times a five string has been played through it it wasn't able to reproduce the low B successfully.
Anyhow, all of this isn't to bag on the cab. It's stellar sound-wise in my experience. But... there are some things to consider. Unless you can find someone who already knows about Duke's cabs resale is really tough for a decent price. Aesthetics matter. Duke, I'm sure it's something you've considered and weighed already, but it might be worth revisiting: create a badge/logo for your cabs, consider finding a tolex guy, maybe design a different front look using a different grill or maybe even grill cloth. Tart your beauties up a bit, they're worth it! Of course, I don't know what Duke's ultimate goals are, so maybe badging and branding and slick looks aren't really all that important in the whole scheme of things. Maybe there are other considerations. These are just friendly suggestions.
Aesthetics are important in the retail world. Now, this might seem like a no-brainer to most, but I hadn't really experienced the truth of it directly before. He demoed the cab for several folks, all of whom were looking for a 212. All of them said it sounded great, very linear, etc, but they all ultimately decided to go with something else. The question is why? Well, there is no badge, and while very tough, duratex isn't the classiest of exteriors for a bass cab. Given that it was sitting next to Bergantino cabs and the new Genzler cabs, the TC212's aesthetic shortcomings were pretty apparent. Point being, people really do hear with their eyes, especially when thinking of plunking down close to a thousand dollars.
Name recognition is also important. Unfortunately, Audiokinesis is just not a name that the vast majority of bass players have heard before. This, coupled with the aesthetic issue, makes resale to anyone who isn't already familiar with Duke's products, at least for a price that's commensurate with their quality, very difficult.
Lastly, when pushing the cab hard with the new Bergantino head and a (Benavente, I think) 5 string, the cab farted out. Now, this was very interesting to me because when I had the Demeter VTBP-800D head and a Fender Victory Bailey 5 string, I also got the cab to fart out playing the low B, and at low volume. At the time I thought it was the head or maybe something with the bass, but finding out someone else using a five string and hitting the low B made it fart out makes me think it might actually be the cab. I don't know what the settings on the head were, but I know the ports were unplugged, so perhaps that had something to do with it. Either way, the two times a five string has been played through it it wasn't able to reproduce the low B successfully.
Anyhow, all of this isn't to bag on the cab. It's stellar sound-wise in my experience. But... there are some things to consider. Unless you can find someone who already knows about Duke's cabs resale is really tough for a decent price. Aesthetics matter. Duke, I'm sure it's something you've considered and weighed already, but it might be worth revisiting: create a badge/logo for your cabs, consider finding a tolex guy, maybe design a different front look using a different grill or maybe even grill cloth. Tart your beauties up a bit, they're worth it! Of course, I don't know what Duke's ultimate goals are, so maybe badging and branding and slick looks aren't really all that important in the whole scheme of things. Maybe there are other considerations. These are just friendly suggestions.
The function-over-form aspect of duratex and no badge would make any cab more appealing to me.
Of course, I also thought the Honda Element was possibly the most practical motor vehicle available.
Of course, I also thought the Honda Element was possibly the most practical motor vehicle available.
Of course, there will always be a few who feel that way, but they're farther and fewer between.
While I can't say I didn't consider the aesthetics of it (those Genzler cabs look NICE in person), the function did certainly sell me on the 1203. Would I have prefer a full grille? Certainly. I would even pay more to have it. I don't care if it has a logo, but in general the full grille does look more finished and less DIY.
There's lots of talented people here, why don't we have a contest to design a logo (assuming Duke doesn't already have one)?
I can't tell you how many people have asked me about my red composite Thunderchild 115. I tell them it's an Audiokinesis, a couple have even thought I built it. A catchy logo could go a long way towards getting more on stages.
I can't tell you how many people have asked me about my red composite Thunderchild 115. I tell them it's an Audiokinesis, a couple have even thought I built it. A catchy logo could go a long way towards getting more on stages.
Because it's super degrading to designers and their profession to expect them to work for free. You wouldn't expect that of other professions and design is no different. I've offered to help Duke with his design needs.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,075
- 46,027
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Duke has had a perfectly nice logo for years. I tried making a few simple plastic mockups as a sort of proof of concept and have had one on my cab for quite a while now. In all honesty, I don't recall anyone ever commenting either way. A little bit of labeling on the jack plate would probably be a nice compromise, IMHO.
As long as people understand the sonic tradeoffs involved with full grills that (generally) require the front baffle to be inset, I'd like to think that at least some of us would prefer the less acoustically compromised solution.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,075
- 46,027
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Understood, some who aren't professionals may have some ideas. I like the logo already in place, but until the brand is better known by the general public, maybe Audiokinesis could be spelled out.
I for one love the austerity of the logoless look, I find the non flashy nature of Dukes cabs appealing.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,075
- 46,027
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
That's just a quick lamination job over an inkjet print, nothing fancy at all. I know that Duke has looked into doing a much nicer version.
Then you are designing by committee at best (in which everyone has opinions and offer input regardless of whether they know anything about branding, the business, design best practices, etc.) or suggesting that amateurs and professionals can offer equivalent value at worst. Should a plumber have to work for free too or would you prefer to call a neighbor with a wrench? Some ideas are okay to crowdsource (product features) but some are best left in the hands of experienced professionals. I've been in this game for over 16 years now and let me assure you that more people to please does not yield a better logo.
Anyway, I'd agree with spelling out the name in a wordmark, personally. It would add some size to the logo, though, as it would need to be readable. I'd guess roughly twice as big as Passinwind's version.
Have you ever tried to sell one to someone who knows nothing about them? That's what I'm addressing. We all have our aesthetic likes and dislikes, and I tend to fall on the side of subtle-but-classy, but strictly from a retail point of view the DIY-look puts these cabs at a disadvantage in the marketplace. I think this is really unfortunate since, as I've said before, you can get a cab that's different from Duke's, but you can't get better (imho, of course). Now, there are probably reasons for the DIY-look that I'm not aware of. I'd guess cost and time are big factors, but I don't know. I do think an upgrade in the looks would help though.
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When I had the 212, I had a GK mb800 at the same time and, just to try it, turned it all the way up. It was painfully loud and never farted, but at the time I don't think I was playing 5 strings. I am playing a 5 now with the 1203's and they haven't farted yet but in gig situations I usually end up with settings that cut the lows, either due to room acoustics or hollow stages. When playing with my loud band I've been using a mesa prodigy that's rated at 200 or so watts and it's not a heavy low end amp so I've felt reasonably safe driving the snot out of it through these cabs.
Random ramblings about AK and booteek bass gear...
I dig duratex and think bubble grills make cabs look muscular. Don't like tolex and rat fur. I don't really like dealing with cab covers. I like amp/cabs that don't draw attention and can take a beating.
It's a certain type of person that is into this stuff. Most are playing more well known equipment. Resale can be difficult and, if buying new, it's reasonable to assume you will lose money and/or have a hard time finding a buyer. I've had bergantino, euphonic, acoustic image, audiokinesis, greenboy, thunderfunk, jule...none of that will sell locally. I even took a bit of hit on lakland JO5 recently even though I bought it used. There is an MAS cab that's a steal that's been in the classifieds for a while but it's kind of big and heavy and the right person isn't close enough to come pick it up.
Over the last 5 years or so it seems the big boys are recognizing and offering some of what the booteeks were able to offer. Genz, with their uber line before they shut down, Mesa, Genzler (is he booteek now?), Fender, Peavey...they're coming out with some very reasonably priced, high performing products that are taking cues from what some of the booteek users are looking for. Budget bass guitar quality and selection has dramatically improved.
One concern I have with buying booteek is what happens when the booteek guy gets out of the business or passes on? Some of the stuff is reasonably serviceable but some stuff not so much.
Duke still has some advantages I find appealing. I don't know of cabs with the size and utility of the 1203's (especially at that price) or another 4ohm 112 design that will handle a 500watt micro. Anybody else making an 18/5 design? The 212 has more competition.
OK, I think I'm done but I want to note that I may have set the record for the most use of the term "booteek" in a single post.
