AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[punchdrunk]

An "upgrade" in looks is a very subjective discussion... The current incarnation of Dukes design may well be precisely his idealized artistic rendering... I can dig it...
I can also dig the afore mentioned idea of his logo/info being etched upon the backplate. That's would be a nice touch.

 

[Passinwind]

Anyway, I'd agree with spelling out the name in a wordmark, personally. It would add some size to the logo, though, as it would need to be readable. I'd guess roughly twice as big as Passinwind's version.

I went through this thought process when I decided to finally start making my DIY electronics widgets look a little more professional/commercial looking, something I know I could still improve on considerably. Interestingly enough, no one notices the utterly goofy name (or at least they never comment on that), they just see something familiar enough to look like a mass produced item. I've often thought it would be hilarious to leave one of my builds in a music store and see what people thought of it.

It does seem maybe a bit incongruous that I play through homemade amps and preamps and such a highly engineered cab, and people would tend to assume that the cab is the DIY part. The music-as-fashion-show aspect of things is a powerful marketing tool, for sure.

 

[nostatic]

In talking with Duke he certainly seems like a function over form kinda guy. As for the aesthetic, I have zero problem with duratex. I *hate* the bubble grills as they remind me of cheap PA cabs ("Phonic" iirc) from the 70's/80's. But the H1203 is such a great cab I overlook that. Which I almost never do as aesthetics do matter with me - but the cabinet is that good...

I don't need a logo - that doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Passinwind]

what sonic compromises do you get from having the front baffle inset?

Hopefully Duke will chime in with one of his usual lucid explanations, but Google "baffle edge diffraction" to get a basic idea. Link Removed

 

[nostatic]

"baffle edge diffraction"

I'm pretty sure they are going to play Coachella in 2016...

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Lastly, when pushing the cab hard with the new Bergantino head and a (Benavente, I think) 5 string, the cab farted out. Now, this was very interesting to me because when I had the Demeter VTBP-800D head and a Fender Victory Bailey 5 string, I also got the cab to fart out playing the low B, and at low volume. At the time I thought it was the head or maybe something with the bass, but finding out someone else using a five string and hitting the low B made it fart out makes me think it might actually be the cab. I don't know what the settings on the head were, but I know the ports were unplugged, so perhaps that had something to do with it. Either way, the two times a five string has been played through it it wasn't able to reproduce the low B successfully.

Wow, bummer! I revisited the modeled behavior of the TC212, and that cab should be exceptionally fartout-resistant. I suspect you have a defective woofer, which is rare but it does happen. I just made arrangements to have a couple of replacement woofers shipped to you, and then later I'll figure out which of the originals was bad.

Aesthetics matter. Duke, I'm sure it's something you've considered and weighed already, but it might be worth revisiting: create a badge/logo for your cabs, consider finding a tolex guy, maybe design a different front look using a different grill or maybe even grill cloth. Tart your beauties up a bit, they're worth it! Of course, I don't know what Duke's ultimate goals are, so maybe badging and branding and slick looks aren't really all that important in the whole scheme of things. Maybe there are other considerations. These are just friendly suggestions.

Thank you for your observations and suggestions, and I'm sorry that my cab's lack of aesthetics has worked against you. I see your points.

I have resisted doing a full grille because it's extra weight and cost without adding performance, and the recessed driver format is a little bit better acoustically and results in a stiffer front baffle which is better. Also, the baby butt cheeks horn that I've been using won't fit underneath a grille, so I'd have a problem there.

Haven't decided what to do about the logo yet. Maybe something small and unobtrusive that can be attached or not as the owner sees fit. I really like the way Charlie did it.

 

[Dee-man]

Sorry you had such a hard time selling your cab, Mariel. It's a very special cab that would only appeal to a very narrow market so I can see why a local only sale (for a $1000 used cab, no less) would be challenging.

Don't know what to say about the cab farting. I never had that experience, though I didn't use 5ers much back when I had a TC212. Hard to believe those 12" drivers can't handle the low B but I have no reason to doubt what you're saying.

As far as cab looks and all that, different strokes for different folks. Walter Woods has been making killer amps for decades and he has not stayed in business because his products are highly marketed or look like everybody else's. Duke's cabs are the same in my book. Eventually, a product's unique quality will sell itself to a knowledgeable market, but tapping into that small market can be quite a challenge, which is why a place like Talkbass is so special for gear fanatics like me who want to try the latest and greatest (and why a local consignment shop will require a seller to just be lucky that a knowledgeable potential buyer happens to walk in).

EDIT: Just posted this and then saw Duke's post that got published first. Wow, Duke, you are the king of customer service and humility. Happy holidays.

 

[Passinwind]

Haven't decided what to do about the logo yet. Maybe something small and unobtrusive that can be attached or not as the owner sees fit. I really like the way Charlie did it.

It might be worth looking into laser etching, which is reasonably easy to procure in small lot quantities and works on a pretty wide variety of materials. The fact that the cutting can be done at the same time is a real bonus too.

 

[Marial]

Wow, bummer! I revisited the modeled behavior of the TC212, and that cab should be exceptionally fartout-resistant. I suspect you have a defective woofer, which is rare but it does happen. I just made arrangements to have a couple of replacement woofers shipped to you, and then later I'll figure out which of the originals was bad.

Astounding customer service. There simply isn't better in the business. This isn't something I'd have ever expected. Thank you Duke!

 

[Jhonnybass]

Wow, bummer! I revisited the modeled behavior of the TC212, and that cab should be exceptionally fartout-resistant. I suspect you have a defective woofer, which is rare but it does happen. I just made arrangements to have a couple of replacement woofers shipped to you, and then later I'll figure out which of the originals was bad.

Duke is by far the best ever for Customer Service!!! I had a busted compression driver on my TC 112 that I bought used here on the classifieds and he sent me a replacement at no charge!!!

 

[Marial]

Sorry you had such a hard time selling your cab, Mariel. It's a very special cab that would only appeal to a very narrow market so I can see why a local only sale (for a $1000 used cab, no less) would be challenging.

Don't know what to say about the cab farting. I never had that experience, though I didn't use 5ers much back when I had a TC212. Hard to believe those 12" drivers can't handle the low B but I have no reason to doubt what you're saying.

As far as cab looks and all that, different strokes for different folks. Walter Woods has been making killer amps for decades and he has not stayed in business because his products are highly marketed or look like everybody else's. Duke's cabs are the same in my book. Eventually, a product's unique quality will sell itself to a knowledgeable market, but tapping into that small market can be quite a challenge, which is why a place like Talkbass is so special for gear fanatics like me who want to try the latest and greatest (and why a local consignment shop will require a seller to just be lucky that a knowledgeable potential buyer happens to walk in).

EDIT: Just posted this and then saw Duke's post that got published first. Wow, Duke, you are the king of customer service and humility. Happy holidays.

Funny that you bring up Walter Woods, my friend brought him up too. It's all about goals, etc. Walter's amps, however, look extremely professional, imho.

As for it being a special cab appealing to a narrow market, I'm not sure I agree with that, necessarily. 212s have been on the market for a bit. Bergantino has certainly shipped out a lot of CN212s. There is definitely a market place, it just depends on how one wishes to compete.

I've had the cab for sale here, not just at the local shop, and the most common offer I received was... I won't say insulting, but entirely too low.

Anyhow, I'm keeping it despite it being more cab than I need. As was mentioned earlier, better too much cab than not enough, and if one or both woofers was defective, it would seem that I've never actually heard what the cab truly sounds like.

 

[Marial]

Duke simply rocks, that's all I can say right now.

 

[Thumper]

So many good points here that I won't recap them. I bought Audiokinesis despite the homade look because I knew what I was getting, and like many here, that's all that matters, I plan on one of his 112s as well. I would, however, retrofit an Audiokinesis badge on my cab, even only if to help Duke advertise in this bass wasteland. Believe me, the red composite draws a lot of eyeballs, I even have females ask about it.

 

[dmrogers]

Interesting conversation and thoughts. I guess I'm in the camp that like Duke's cabs just like they are. I like function. Around where I play, if you don't use Ampeg or (maybe) GK you just aren't in the know! I'm not talking bad about Ampeg or GK, but seriously, that's about the only brand anyone around here knows about.

All of that changes when folks try out my gear. Whether it be AudioKinesis, Thunderfunk, Jule Monique and even in some cases Berg and Aguilar! People have never heard of them and I've actually had people feel sorry for me since I don't have "good gear". That is, until they hear and play the stuff.

Every now and then, I get asked about my gear. And really, the folks that are interested in knowing what I use are the only ones that can actually afford it, and realize that there are other brands besides Peavey, Ampeg and Fender. The other people are buying and/or playing what they like and can afford (or the brand that they know about).

When I play through my 1203 cabs, it is just wonderful. I wouldn't trade them for anything!

 

[DukeLeJeune]

what sonic compromises do you get from having the front baffle inset?

Imo having a pronounced "lip" on the front baffle can be detrimental. Are you up for an experiment?

We're going to simulate a lip around a baffle. It won't be a perfect simulation, but then simulations never are.

Extend two fingers on each hand and place them up against your face, on either side of your mouth, as if they were two of the four sides of a recessed bass cab face. Now talk. Note the timbre of your voice.

Remove your hands and talk again. Hear the difference? Go back and forth a few times. Now this difference is probably exaggerated compared to the situation with a bass cab, but I grew up doing high-end home audio and we tried very hard to avoid that "boxy" signature.

Now to see what happens with a cab like your Hathor 1855, with the criss-crossed mids, use your whole hand, but only on one side of your mouth. Compare that with no hands, and there's a little change but not much. But use both hands and ugh! That's why we have that triangular cut-out in the top just above the mids.

Does the thick wooden section in front of that triangular cut-out cause a problem? Well, let's simulate that. One hand open on one side of your mouth, and then two fingers on the other side, but instead of up against your face, about 1" out in front of your face. Talk. Then remove the two fingers, and talk again. Negligible change.

So anyway in my mind at least, there's some madness behind the method, or vice versa.

 

[Jhonnybass]

Imo having a pronounced "lip" on the front baffle can be detrimental. Are you up for an experiment?

We're going to simulate a lip around a baffle. It won't be a perfect simulation, but then simulations never are.

Extend two fingers on each hand and place them up against your face, on either side of your mouth, as if they were two of the four sides of a recessed bass cab face. Now talk. Note the timbre of your voice.

Remove your hands and talk again. Hear the difference? Go back and forth a few times. Now this difference is probably exaggerated compared to the situation with a bass cab, but I grew up doing high-end home audio and we tried very hard to avoid that "boxy" signature.

Now to see what happens with a cab like your Hathor 1855, with the criss-crossed mids, use your whole hand, but only on one side of your mouth. Compare that with no hands, and there's a little change but not much. But use both hands and ugh! That's why we have that triangular cut-out in the top just above the mids.

Does the thick wooden section in front of that triangular cut-out cause a problem? Well, let's simulate that. One hand open on one side of your mouth, and then two fingers on the other side, but instead of up against your face, about 1" out in front of your face. Talk. Then remove the two fingers, and talk again. Negligible change.

So anyway in my mind at least, there's some madness behind the method, or vice versa.

Wicked! Thanks for the explanation Duke! That's makes total sense so yes - I definitely opt for not having a grill in favour of having better sound

 

[wagdog]

Branding is incredibly important, especially for word of mouth products like Dukes. If I came across a AudioKinesis in the wild and wasn't in the know, how would I know what it was?

 

[nutdog]

Bass players world wide are sitting in front of their computers talking to themselves with their hands around their mouths...

 

[steubig]

All of that changes when folks try out my gear. Whether it be AudioKinesis, Thunderfunk, Jule Monique and even in some cases Berg and Aguilar! People have never heard of them and I've actually had people feel sorry for me since I don't have "good gear". That is, until they hear and play the stuff.

i had this happen when i was playing an oldies show at a state fair. guy felt sorry for me cause i wasn't playing a fender . . . i was playing my fodera . . . funny world.

 

[Passinwind]

Bass players world wide are sitting in front of their computers talking to themselves with their hands around their mouths...

Except maybe for that miscreant Passinwind. Somebody's gotta do the dirty work.