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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...
- Thread starter Thor
- Start date
this discussion sort of reminds me of when fodera made their nyc line. seemed like a step backwards to me . . .
Never let the inmates run the asylum...
Meh, it's a forum, therefore discussion is encouraged! Never know what might come out of it!
not my intent at all.
sorry if it seemed that way.
there are times when i turn the high end compenents off in my hathors and tc stuff. i like the flexibility.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Not to answer on behalf of Duke, but...
In my observation, the reason why Duke can make a business "go" of it by building and selling bass cabs is because he focuses on the high end, and boutique quality. This allows him to charge a premium, and thereby enjoy a reasonable enough profit margin to offset his inability to benefit from larger economies of scale, such as GK and Ampeg are able to do, for example.
Once he goes down market, even by a modest degree, he simultaneously compromises his strategic market advantage while reducing his profit margins - thus requiring him to build even more cabs, more quickly, to try to compensate quantitatively what he just gave up qualitatively. As a one-man show, performing all or virtually all of the labor himself, how's he ever going to find the time and energy to do that? And why would he ever want to?
MM
Very well said. That's right on the money, in more ways that one.
I think there may be a window of opportunity to do a "one-way" cab (no mids or tweets) wherein a bit of response-shaping circuitry gives a worthwhile improvement over just putting "speakers in a box", enabling me to maintain enough margin to make it worth my while. It will probably still be weird enough that I won't get too many orders.
Actually I've been thinking about this for a couple of years, the pieces of the puzzle to do what I really wanted in a more "bang for the buck" cab have not been available until just recently.
Couldn't agree more. While the NYC was a nice bass, it wasn't a smart move on their part.
Rule of thumb... Don't mess with perfection!! And Duke, your cabs equal perfection and are well worth the price you charge. Which by the way is very reasonable considering how great they are.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Thank you for your questions about doing something simpler and more affordable, you've prodded me to move a bit faster on something that's been on the back burner for a while. While not exactly what you're looking for (1505 sans switches), you've let me know that there's interest in that general direction.
I always appreciate it when people let me know what they'd like, as more information about that is always useful.
I really like your 'niche' design & marketing approach & think it serves you & your customers very well.
Speaking of niche: how's the birdhaus approach coming along or is that back-burnered for now?
Hathor 1505 Test Report
Equipment used:
Fender Duck Dunn Precision Bass with ~5 year old Labella 760FX flats
Music Man 5 string with 2 band EQ and newish GHS Super Steels
Kustom KXB-500 amp
VT Bass v2 pedal
George L factory cables
I received the first 1505 and have been playing it for 5 days now. This thing is a BEAST! It's really loud. In fact I've been dying to get it on a soundstage because I'm destroying the house! That happened today, I played it in a 1,000 seat auditorium and it performed admirably. I had another player try the two above mentioned basses through it while I adjusted settings and flipped switches. A sound pro was also on hand for the eval, we stood back about 50 feet and listened.
The 1505 voicing is even more aggressive than the 1203, in fact the other two guys much preferred the mid switch in the down position. Myself I like the aggressive mids when I play with some drive from the VT Bass. It's nice to have it available but it's also great to tame it with the switch. There would never be a problem hearing yourself with this cab, the mid switch adds a lot of push if needed. At first impression, the 4/8 ohm switch did not seem to make the cab sound any louder or different, but upon further testing I definitely noticed it hit harder in the 4 ohm setting (pulling all 450w from my amp).
The first thing we did was plug into the H1203 by itself, then the 1505 alone, then stacked them together. The 1203 does have a little more top end sparkle, although increasing the treble slightly on my Music Man bass made the 1505 sound just as bright. The 1505 was substantially louder than the 1203. Duke rates it at 98 dB @ 1 w/m which is 3 dB more efficient than a 1203. For fun we switched over to an Ashdown 4x10 to compare to a "normal" cabinet. Everyone wanted to switch back right away which is pretty telling. Interestingly, the 1505 was noticeably louder than that 4x10 which has a factory sensitivity rating of 101 dB @ 1 w/m
Stacked, the two didn't seem much louder than the 1505 alone despite the fact that more cone area was moving. I think the extra efficiency of the 1505 overpowers the 1203 enough so that you don't hear much except for that little bit of extra treble. Well those are my initial findings, I will report back with more use.
Equipment used:
Fender Duck Dunn Precision Bass with ~5 year old Labella 760FX flats
Music Man 5 string with 2 band EQ and newish GHS Super Steels
Kustom KXB-500 amp
VT Bass v2 pedal
George L factory cables
I received the first 1505 and have been playing it for 5 days now. This thing is a BEAST! It's really loud. In fact I've been dying to get it on a soundstage because I'm destroying the house! That happened today, I played it in a 1,000 seat auditorium and it performed admirably. I had another player try the two above mentioned basses through it while I adjusted settings and flipped switches. A sound pro was also on hand for the eval, we stood back about 50 feet and listened.
The 1505 voicing is even more aggressive than the 1203, in fact the other two guys much preferred the mid switch in the down position. Myself I like the aggressive mids when I play with some drive from the VT Bass. It's nice to have it available but it's also great to tame it with the switch. There would never be a problem hearing yourself with this cab, the mid switch adds a lot of push if needed. At first impression, the 4/8 ohm switch did not seem to make the cab sound any louder or different, but upon further testing I definitely noticed it hit harder in the 4 ohm setting (pulling all 450w from my amp).
The first thing we did was plug into the H1203 by itself, then the 1505 alone, then stacked them together. The 1203 does have a little more top end sparkle, although increasing the treble slightly on my Music Man bass made the 1505 sound just as bright. The 1505 was substantially louder than the 1203. Duke rates it at 98 dB @ 1 w/m which is 3 dB more efficient than a 1203. For fun we switched over to an Ashdown 4x10 to compare to a "normal" cabinet. Everyone wanted to switch back right away which is pretty telling. Interestingly, the 1505 was noticeably louder than that 4x10 which has a factory sensitivity rating of 101 dB @ 1 w/m
Stacked, the two didn't seem much louder than the 1505 alone despite the fact that more cone area was moving. I think the extra efficiency of the 1505 overpowers the 1203 enough so that you don't hear much except for that little bit of extra treble. Well those are my initial findings, I will report back with more use.
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Hey Duke - one thing I've thought about, but never seem to have time to really think about or model... what if you angle a driver or even the tweeter(s) in the vertical plane (so a shorter cab has something pointed up towards ears, without using a tilt-back design)? Obviously changed the game a lot, so not sure it's a good idea or a terrible one, but hey, while the rest of us are armchair CEO'ing and tossing ideas out there
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
It seemed to be a loud cab, but I only had my own cabs (and in some cases only memories of my own cabs) to compare it to. Maybe now there's an exception to the rule that if you combine a 115 with a 410, the 115 will get buried.
My guess is that for most players most of the time "smooth" mode will be the default, with "growly" there mainly for special occasions.
Glad to hear that. You lose about 1 dB of efficiency in "8 ohm" mode, and the bottom end will theoretically warm up a little bit, but the ideal would be, no audible difference. That makes it more attractive as a "second cab" that a bass player can add to an 8-ohm cab he already owns. Or a pair of 1505s could be stacked, or one 1505 + one Thunderchild 115v3 (which uses the same woofer and has the same "4/8 ohm" switch).
Thank you VERY MUCH shrigg for taking the time to evaluate the Hathor 1505.
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Duke
Do you feel the 1203/1505 combo works to each cabinets strengths, enhancing the overall tone when combined?
Do you feel the 1203/1505 combo works to each cabinets strengths, enhancing the overall tone when combined?
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
My impression is that the loudness difference between the two is more than I had expected, such that adding the 1203 doesn't make a big difference in SPL. As for the tone, shrigg is in a better position to comment on that than I am, but the 1203 goes a little bit higher while the 1505 can be EQ'd to subjectively come pretty close. I think they were pretty similar through the mids in "smooth" mode, but the 1505 is considerably more aggressive in "growly" mode.
As shrigg mentioned, the woofer in the 1505 is about 98 dB calculated, based on the T/S parameters. This does not take the intentional upper-midrange peak into account. It's about a 6 dB peak, which is probably why the cab is so loud in growly mode... but to my ears, it seemed loud even in smooth mode. [Shrigg posted while I was typing.]
I really like that new Eminence Pro-5MRN8 midrange. It's like they designed its curve just for me. Despite not being as loud "on paper" as many of its competitors, it is actually louder right where I want it to be than anything else I've tried so far.
The Birdhaus configuration has been tried in three different cabs so far, and will be tried in a fourth before too long (the woofers are on order). So far the little 4x6 seems to be the best embodiment of the concept, but I learned stuff from the other two, which will help me with the fourth.
Shrigg
I did catch your comments. Thank you for sharing them. I was still uncertain if the combination of the 2 cabs is a positive step resulting in the sum being better then it's parts.
I have a 1505 on order and plan to use both cabs together at times.
Duke
Thanks for your response. Perhaps another cab would match with 1203 for higher volume situations?
I did catch your comments. Thank you for sharing them. I was still uncertain if the combination of the 2 cabs is a positive step resulting in the sum being better then it's parts.
I have a 1505 on order and plan to use both cabs together at times.
Duke
Thanks for your response. Perhaps another cab would match with 1203 for higher volume situations?
