AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[nutdog]

Yes, I should have got a better pic of the other wall

That's @10cc on the right and @47th Street. If you don't mind hauling 400lbs of gear the SVT into 2 810's is formidable.

We had a nice selection of EB's from classic to modern including 47th's Rick that he bought new in 74. Fender, Gibson, Fbass, ATK, Bongo...

We sampled Dave's Blast Cult through different rigs.

But the primary focus seemed to be comparing/contrasting the new breed of small cabs and amps.

That's @driver800's BBC Tank 1015 and streamliner 900, Dave's F212 and my hathor stack, subway and minimega. We almost had an MAS and F210 in the mix but the planets didn't align.

 

[Marial]

Duke has been awfully quiet. Which reminds me, there was talk of badges at one point, anyone know if that's still in the works?

 

[godblender]

How do the F212 and Hathor's stack up against one another?

 

[nutdog]

How do the F212 and Hathor's stack up against one another?

The hathor's are taller.

Pretty much about like I expected. The F212 is a fantastic cab. Loud, low and beautifully clear. The 1203 stack has less low and more bark. Tonal details of each bass present well in both.

That's swapping cabs at identical amp settings. EQ changes were very noticeable in both. You could boost the hi mids on the F212 and get some the bark and boost lows on the 1203's and get more bottom. But natively the F212 has a more PA with a subs vibe and the hathor is more like a smaller version of a sealed 810. DB sounded nice through both but better through the fearless.

That's all subjective IMO, YMMV type stuff. Objectively the F212 is heavier, wider, shorter and more expensive. It's not hard to move around with the tiltback wheels but the hathors are easier to lift and carry.

I came away EXTREMELY impressed with both setups. They have differences that might make one more appealing than the other to different players in different situations. While the extra low end of the f212 sounded and felt great (it never felt like it was struggling) I find big lows to be problematic at many of my gigs. Dave uses an HPF. The sound of the 1203 works great out of the box for me with little to no knob turning. I also have many gigs where 1 is enough but it's easy to bring the second along and rock out.

But dang, that f212 low end sounded sweet. At one point Kenneth (great player) had the bongo>mm>f212 and it was SO strong and deep. On the other hand, I was walking out the door with my bass gig bag over my shoulder and a cab in each hand. Kenneth started playing Lady Madonna. I stepped up to the mic and sang the whole song while holding my bass rig.

I don't think Dave is going to trade in for hathors and I'll be happily keeping my AK's.


This post contains information believed to be accurate and complete at the date of preparation. However, no guarantee is expressed or implied by nutdog or any subsidiary of nutdog. Advice given assumes compliance with federal, state, and local regulations.

 

[godblender]

Thank you, nutdog. I ask because, while I'm very happy with my F115's, I've been contemplating a 212 "super" cab from one of the usual suspects (Barefaced, Greenboy or Duke's upcoming Hathor 212). I pretty much know what I'd be getting with a F212 which may be why I'm leaning towards something a bit different...the idea of a slightly more "traditional" bass cab sound/feel but with better clarity, dispersion and power handling is very intriguing. I very interested to hear reports from the field once the Hathor 212 arrives.

 

[10cc]

The hathor's are taller.

Pretty much about like I expected. The F212 is a fantastic cab. Loud, low and beautifully clear. The 1203 stack has less low and more bark. Tonal details of each bass present well in both.

That's swapping cabs at identical amp settings. EQ changes were very noticeable in both. You could boost the hi mids on the F212 and get some the bark and boost lows on the 1203's and get more bottom. But natively the F212 has a more PA with a subs vibe and the hathor is more like a smaller version of a sealed 810. DB sounded nice through both but better through the fearless.

That's all subjective IMO, YMMV type stuff. Objectively the F212 is heavier, wider, shorter and more expensive. It's not hard to move around with the tiltback wheels but the hathors are easier to lift and carry.

I came away EXTREMELY impressed with both setups. They have differences that might make one more appealing than the other to different players in different situations. While the extra low end of the f212 sounded and felt great (it never felt like it was struggling) I find big lows to be problematic at many of my gigs. Dave uses an HPF. The sound of the 1203 works great out of the box for me with little to no knob turning. I also have many gigs where 1 is enough but it's easy to bring the second along and rock out.

But dang, that f212 low end sounded sweet. At one point Kenneth (great player) had the bongo>mm>f212 and it was SO strong and deep. On the other hand, I was walking out the door with my bass gig bag over my shoulder and a cab in each hand. Kenneth started playing Lady Madonna. I stepped up to the mic and sang the whole song while holding my bass rig.

I don't think Dave is going to trade in for hathors and I'll be happily keeping my AK's.


This post contains information believed to be accurate and complete at the date of preparation. However, no guarantee is expressed or implied by nutdog or any subsidiary of nutdog. Advice given assumes compliance with federal, state, and local regulations.

I'd say that's spot on with what I gathered too. Both the fEARless and the AK gear sounded wonderful. Someone made mention of the room shot. Here is one before the others showed up with the ultra light gear.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

Duke was away when I emailed him last week and ordered my H1203

 

[Dave Hill]

The hathor's are taller.

Pretty much about like I expected. The F212 is a fantastic cab. Loud, low and beautifully clear. The 1203 stack has less low and more bark. Tonal details of each bass present well in both.

That's swapping cabs at identical amp settings. EQ changes were very noticeable in both. You could boost the hi mids on the F212 and get some the bark and boost lows on the 1203's and get more bottom. But natively the F212 has a more PA with a subs vibe and the hathor is more like a smaller version of a sealed 810. DB sounded nice through both but better through the fearless.

That's all subjective IMO, YMMV type stuff. Objectively the F212 is heavier, wider, shorter and more expensive. It's not hard to move around with the tiltback wheels but the hathors are easier to lift and carry.

I came away EXTREMELY impressed with both setups. They have differences that might make one more appealing than the other to different players in different situations. While the extra low end of the f212 sounded and felt great (it never felt like it was struggling) I find big lows to be problematic at many of my gigs. Dave uses an HPF. The sound of the 1203 works great out of the box for me with little to no knob turning. I also have many gigs where 1 is enough but it's easy to bring the second along and rock out.

But dang, that f212 low end sounded sweet. At one point Kenneth (great player) had the bongo>mm>f212 and it was SO strong and deep. On the other hand, I was walking out the door with my bass gig bag over my shoulder and a cab in each hand. Kenneth started playing Lady Madonna. I stepped up to the mic and sang the whole song while holding my bass rig.

I don't think Dave is going to trade in for hathors and I'll be happily keeping my AK's.


This post contains information believed to be accurate and complete at the date of preparation. However, no guarantee is expressed or implied by nutdog or any subsidiary of nutdog. Advice given assumes compliance with federal, state, and local regulations.

+1.
Great stuff.

I wonder if the H212 will be any different than the 1203 stack? From what I've gathered, there's not a whole lotta difference between an F212 and 2 F112's.

 

[TrentB]

The hathor's are taller.

Pretty much about like I expected. The F212 is a fantastic cab. Loud, low and beautifully clear. The 1203 stack has less low and more bark. Tonal details of each bass present well in both.

That's swapping cabs at identical amp settings. EQ changes were very noticeable in both. You could boost the hi mids on the F212 and get some the bark and boost lows on the 1203's and get more bottom. But natively the F212 has a more PA with a subs vibe and the hathor is more like a smaller version of a sealed 810. DB sounded nice through both but better through the fearless.

That's all subjective IMO, YMMV type stuff. Objectively the F212 is heavier, wider, shorter and more expensive. It's not hard to move around with the tiltback wheels but the hathors are easier to lift and carry.

I came away EXTREMELY impressed with both setups. They have differences that might make one more appealing than the other to different players in different situations. While the extra low end of the f212 sounded and felt great (it never felt like it was struggling) I find big lows to be problematic at many of my gigs. Dave uses an HPF. The sound of the 1203 works great out of the box for me with little to no knob turning. I also have many gigs where 1 is enough but it's easy to bring the second along and rock out.

But dang, that f212 low end sounded sweet. At one point Kenneth (great player) had the bongo>mm>f212 and it was SO strong and deep. On the other hand, I was walking out the door with my bass gig bag over my shoulder and a cab in each hand. Kenneth started playing Lady Madonna. I stepped up to the mic and sang the whole song while holding my bass rig.

I don't think Dave is going to trade in for hathors and I'll be happily keeping my AK's.


This post contains information believed to be accurate and complete at the date of preparation. However, no guarantee is expressed or implied by nutdog or any subsidiary of nutdog. Advice given assumes compliance with federal, state, and local regulations.

How did the MiniMega play through the Hathor stack? I'll be receiving Duke's first H212 soon and I'll be running the MM through it.

 

[nutdog]

I think it sounds great. The subway was a big hit at the gathering also.

 

[Marial]

I think it sounds great. The subway was a big hit at the gathering also.

Have you compared a TC112 or 212 to a Fearless F112 or 212? Wondering how the low end compares between the two ranges.

 

[nutdog]

Have you compared a TC112 or 212 to a Fearless F112 or 212? Wondering how the low end compares between the two ranges.

Never side by side. I've owned and gigged the TC212 (composite) and TC115WAF in addition to hathors. On the greenboy side I briefly owned the F115 for a few gigs. I also had an LDS 12/6 with the 3012lf.

My feeling is the greenboy line has more low end in general than Audiokinesis using similar/same woofers. I believe this is a design choice by both parties. I remember reading that greenboy was into the super low range basses and wanted a cab that produced the low fundamentals. Duke seems to talk more about tuning for the first overtone. Different guys doing different things very, very well.

Consider the TC212 vs F212. Same woofers. TC is 34.5" tall x 14.5" wide x 14.5" deep. F212 is 32" high x 20" wide x 14.75" deep. That makes the cab volume (using outer dimensions) 7254in^3 vs. 9440. The fearless is a bigger cab and I think this is what makes it capable of producing more low. TC112 is 4312 and F112 is 5120 so it might be similar bit with the wedge shape that number might not be right. The fearful 112 is 24" high x 16.5" wide x 15.25" deep, 6039in^3.

But as we all know, low is just one part of the story. Size, weight, shape, cost, features, voicing...really a lot of differences between these two lines even though they use same/similar components.

 

[Marial]

Excellent, thanks!

 

[Passinwind]

My feeling is the greenboy line has more low end in general than Audiokinesis using similar/same woofers. I believe this is a design choice by both parties. I remember reading that greenboy was into the super low range basses and wanted a cab that produced the low fundamentals. Duke seems to talk more about tuning for the first overtone. Different guys doing different things very, very well.

Yep. I owned a very early version fEARful 12/6 (pre-CBG crossovers) and offed it right when I got my TC112AF. The TC cab makes all the low bass I ever want perfectly easily, and personally I prefer using a little bass boost as my default rather than a little cut, especially given the size and weight differences mandated by those design choices. The 12/6 was great sounding cab too though. I still have a couple of DIY 15/6/1 cabs that are definitely familial to greenboy's designs, and I have no problem making them mimic the TC112, and vice-versa, FWIW.

 

[Marial]

Right on, just curious.

 

[Dave Hill]

You can definitely kill the mix with the lows of the Fearless if not used properly, lol.

I use a HPF almost 100% of the time. Of course I use it in the DI too because for some reason a lot of "sound men" seem to think that mixing the bass and kick into one huge loud blob sounds good.

@nutdog didn't bring the plugs for his Hathors to the gtg...id be interested to hear the difference with them in. Next time bro!

 

[wneff]

Hi, can someone remind me what the tuning frequencies are of the TC115 with different port plug options?

 

[ErnieD]

If y'all tried it, can you say what differences btw the MM1000 vs Mesa Subway 800 thru the F212? I'm guessing that is the F212 in the pic that looks alot like my Gen 2 BF Big Twin-T? One better or worse? Huge tonal disparity or not?

I doubt either one sounds bad, more asking if one owns one head, should they own the other? Or not necessary? I run my MM1000 thru Gen 2, BF BT-T and I love what I get out of that combination. I use a Fdeck HPF3 for some rooms with it. But I usually just unleash all those lows and shake the room with my active or passive 5ers, lol.

So more asking about head differences than cabs here. Been wanting to try the Subway 800 for some time but my Peavey MM1K lacks for nothing so far.

ALotta nice looking gear there. Really like the looks of that BBC cab too. Thanks for any info if you care to comment. peace, e

 

[nutdog]

I'm a big fan of the minimega and subway. Both are powerful and versatile. So, realizing that we are talking in subtleties here...

The subway really sounded sweet thru the 212. The more aggressive voicing seemed to complement the flatter nature of that cab. Everything seemed clear, focused and full. At first when we were swapping amps the consensus seemed to favor the subway. But as we went thru different basses and turned knobs the mm showed it's strength as well.

So, I wouldn't say you're missing out but it's a doggone nice amp and I'm happy to have both.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

Man the thunderchild sounded good tonight.