AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[Interceptor]

Great write up on the GTG!

By the reporting here, it has killed off my thinking of parting with a 12/6 to go over to a Hathor. At some point it gets to be close enough.

Just curious - how did the Plush and Kustom fare in that room? I owned a Plush like that one back in the mid 1970's, and in the same timeframe played countless gigs through it or the Customs that were common on the stages around Milwaukee back then. They were just enough until the Twin Reverbs got dimed.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

I have a small shed that I work from and store my gear. So space is limited. I'm considering selling my two H1203's so I can get one H1544. Or the TC118. I absolutely love the TC1203's. They are the most incredible sounding cabs I've ever owned. But now I'm considering the 15 and 18 woofer, for a bit more bottom end. Mind you, the 2 x H1203's are very loud and have plenty of low end, but I think I want to try out the 15 or 18 cab. Opinions, anyone?

@nutdog I wish I had a chance to try out the Mesa Boogie D800 before I bought the GK MB500 but I live at the end of the trail here in Alaska. I also would have liked to try out the Peavey MM. Sadly, I found the MiniMax lacking in the tone that I'd depended on in the late 70s through the 80s, and curiously the fan was LOUD on it. It was a very well built amp, and nice design, lots of power, but I often take one H1203 and an amp into the house to quietly practice bass parts. The MiniMax sounded like a small vacuum cleaner. Couldn't get past the fan noise and the lack of the "classic Peavey Tone" I love. However, I wish they'd fix that, I'd try again, and see if I could dial in a tone I liked. Next trip through Seattle I might go to American Music and Musicians Friend and give the amps a good going over again.

 

[10cc]

Great write up on the GTG!

By the reporting here, it has killed off my thinking of parting with a 12/6 to go over to a Hathor. At some point it gets to be close enough.

Just curious - how did the Plush and Kustom fare in that room? I owned a Plush like that one back in the mid 1970's, and in the same timeframe played countless gigs through it or the Customs that were common on the stages around Milwaukee back then. They were just enough until the Twin Reverbs got dimed.

They sound wonderful at low volume.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

By the reporting here, it has killed off my thinking of parting with a 12/6 to go over to a Hathor. At some point it gets to be close enough.

Get one and you can have both!

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Can any other AK users let me know if Duke makes an "SVT 810 Killer?" I'm kind of suspecting the TC212. Does it get enormously loud and full?

 

[Marial]

I don't know that it's an 810 killer, but the TC112 does get loud and full. It was absolute overkill for any gig I'm likely to ever have (I've played exactly one gig in fifteen years that didn't have FOH support). I'd say it ought to be fine for most gigs without FOH support unless you're playing metal or a similarly very loud genre. I didn't even scratch the surface of how loud it could go and was once told I was overpowering the mix at a gig.

 

[Handyman]

Can any other AK users let me know if Duke makes an "SVT 810 Killer?" I'm kind of suspecting the TC212. Does it get enormously loud and full?

None of the AK cabs are voiced like an Ampeg cab, really, but some of them can get CRAZY loud. An 810e is a very different design than what Duke's making, so its hard to do a direct comparison.

The Hathor 1855 beats a 810e on raw woofer displacement (really!) - but the 810e is more efficient and can put out more dB at higher frequencies before being thermally limited than the 1855. The lower efficiency also means you want a really high powered amp to make use of the massive air moving ability. I don't think an Ampeg B15 into the 1855 would be an ideal setup, but it loves my MB Fusion 800.

So depending on how you want to measure it, you could consider the 1855 a fridge killer. Its going to sound really different, though.

FWIW, I've had zero cab related GAS since I got my 1855 almost two years ago. It can go way louder than I'll ever need, and I can move around just the one cab without having to worry if its enough. Easy to move too. And sounds awesome.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

One distinction that has to be made with Duke's cabs, is maximum SPL vs efficiency.

As Handyman mentioned, Duke's cabs come off as pretty inefficient when compared to classic cabs with short-throw drivers, like an Ampeg fridge or an older twin-15 with EV's or JBL's.

Vintage-style 250-350 watt heads like a Reeves or an SVT sound great with a Hathor, but they are not going to move as much air as they would with an 810e.

The neo drivers that Duke uses all come from the pro subwoofer market, and that's how he gets so much sound from low driver counts and small boxes. Smart as Duke may be, there's still no way to cheat the laws of physics: they only reach max output when they're paired with a new-tech, high-wattage bass head or a rack system with a PA power amp.

The original 4 ohm Thunderchild had roughly the same max output as a boutique 3*10, but only when paired with at least 500 watts. It was designed around the original Genz Shuttles, Markbass, G-K MB500, Tonehammer 500, etc. The low B off a TC112 is much more convincing than an 810e, but only at reasonable gigging volumes.

A single TC212 is roughly a 6*10 equivalent. It won't play quite as loud as an 810e in the mids, but the low end extension is much better. As you might expect, it needs up around 800-1,000 watts to get there.

The real "Fridge killer" in Duke's lineup would be a pair of TC or Hathor 115's, or a single 1855. As with the TC212, they need a kilowatt-class head in order to really hit their stride.

 

[steubig]

throwing this question out there: stereo class d amps that will would be good for mi purposes.

anyone?

duke?

 

[alaskaleftybass]

One distinction that has to be made with Duke's cabs, is maximum SPL vs efficiency.

As Handyman mentioned, Duke's cabs come off as pretty inefficient when compared to classic cabs with short-throw drivers, like an Ampeg fridge or an older twin-15 with EV's or JBL's.

Vintage-style 250-350 watt heads like a Reeves or an SVT sound great with a Hathor, but they are not going to move as much air as they would with an 810e.

The neo drivers that Duke uses all come from the pro subwoofer market, and that's how he gets so much sound from low driver counts and small boxes. Smart as Duke may be, there's still no way to cheat the laws of physics: they only reach max output when they're paired with a new-tech, high-wattage bass head or a rack system with a PA power amp.

The original 4 ohm Thunderchild had roughly the same max output as a boutique 3*10, but only when paired with at least 500 watts. It was designed around the original Genz Shuttles, Markbass, G-K MB500, Tonehammer 500, etc. The low B off a TC112 is much more convincing than an 810e, but only at reasonable gigging volumes.

A single TC212 is roughly a 6*10 equivalent. It won't play quite as loud as an 810e in the mids, but the low end extension is much better. As you might expect, it needs up around 800-1,000 watts to get there.

The real "Fridge killer" in Duke's lineup would be a pair of TC or Hathor 115's, or a single 1855. As with the TC212, they need a kilowatt-class head in order to really hit their stride.

Thank you! That is an excellent tutorial for me on traditional vs. modern (Duke) bass cabs. I've been drawn to the H1855 because I had a Peavey 1810 in the 80's for a short time and absolutely loved the very solid, present bottom they put out. I own two H1203s but I'm considering selling and moving up to an H1855. I hope I can get to Duke on time-- I read that he might go to a three-way design. Although I trust his impeccable judgement, I'm partial to the woofer/midrange like my H1203 or the H1855. As far as power goes, the Warwick LWA1000's are going for cheap nowadays and they've cleared up the compressor issue. And a number of AK users here say they love the Peavey MiniMega 1,000 watt head with their AK cabs...

Ahhhhh if I could only win that Mega Millions-- I'd buy a pair of each model! LOL

 

[tombowlus]

Thank you! That is an excellent tutorial for me on traditional vs. modern (Duke) bass cabs. I've been drawn to the H1855 because I had a Peavey 1810 in the 80's for a short time and absolutely loved the very solid, present bottom they put out. I own two H1203s but I'm considering selling and moving up to an H1855. I hope I can get to Duke on time-- I read that he might go to a three-way design. Although I trust his impeccable judgement, I'm partial to the woofer/midrange like my H1203 or the H1855. As far as power goes, the Warwick LWA1000's are going for cheap nowadays and they've cleared up the compressor issue. And a number of AK users here say they love the Peavey MiniMega 1,000 watt head with their AK cabs...

Ahhhhh if I could only win that Mega Millions-- I'd buy a pair of each model! LOL

As someone who is just flat-out in love with a pair of 1203's, I have to admit that when I broke out the 1855 to compare to the 1505 (et al), I have to admit that I fell in love with that 1855 all over again. It is a truly excellent single-cab selection, and equally as good as a pair of 1203's. Choosing between those two stacks is all about personal preferences, IME/IMHO.

 

[Selta]

I'm just dropping in to plus this again, since it's been a few pages
AudioKinesis Users

Map/"registry" of AudioKinesis users. Feel free to add your name to it, so other interested folks can possibly demo or at least hear these things in use.

I have two nice gigs coming up, then a break for a few weeks while one of my projects does some recording. Also buying a house, so fixing my TC118's compression driver has been put off even more. Hopefully by the end of the year, though we'll see .

I'd like to try out a fEarless at some point, too. The wedge design seems like it might be nice for monitoring-only type situations for me. Keep the TC for the big gigs, and then just use the fEarless on the small ones.

 

[dinoadventures]

Added myself to the map.

 

[nutdog]

Did a fundraiser at the local hospital in their parking deck. Subway into one 1203, only vocals, guitar and keys in the PA. Drummer was in a k12. Figured a sub in that environment wasn't necessary. Apparently they agreed because they were very complimentary and got lots of requests for our cards, hopefully for future gigs.

Most of my gigs are like this. Background music that may evolve into a dance party if the liquor flows. It's why I got into lightweight/small equipment. There's little need for the big guns. Even the PA is small, modular and powerful.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

I'm just dropping in to plus this again, since it's been a few pages
AudioKinesis Users

Map/"registry" of AudioKinesis users. Feel free to add your name to it, so other interested folks can possibly demo or at least hear these things in use.

I have two nice gigs coming up, then a break for a few weeks while one of my projects does some recording. Also buying a house, so fixing my TC118's compression driver has been put off even more. Hopefully by the end of the year, though we'll see .

I'd like to try out a fEarless at some point, too. The wedge design seems like it might be nice for monitoring-only type situations for me. Keep the TC for the big gigs, and then just use the fEarless on the small ones.

I'm thinking there would be nothing wrong with owning a fEarless along with the AK. BTW what happened to your compression driver? How did it fail?

Did a fundraiser at the local hospital in their parking deck. Subway into one 1203, only vocals, guitar and keys in the PA. Drummer was in a k12. Figured a sub in that environment wasn't necessary. Apparently they agreed because they were very complimentary and got lots of requests for our cards, hopefully for future gigs.

Most of my gigs are like this. Background music that may evolve into a dance party if the liquor flows. It's why I got into lightweight/small equipment. There's little need for the big guns. Even the PA is small, modular and powerful.

View attachment 940541

View attachment 940537

My sentiments exactly, @nutdog . The new generation of active loudspeakers are excellent. I just sold a pair of 15" 550 watt bi-amped active speakers to buy a pair of 12" bi-amped. As for portability, against my better sensibilities, I want one of the H1855's but my two H1203's are so perfect to haul around and sound so excellent, I think I really don't need the 1855. But I sure would love one! Christmas is right around the corner...

Anyway, I'm glad your gig went well, hope you have more coming up!

 

[Selta]

I'm thinking there would be nothing wrong with owning a fEarless along with the AK. BTW what happened to your compression driver? How did it fail?

There's not an easy way to know what happened. It could've been pushed too hard, or been a faulty one that finally just had enough. Either way, Duke is taking super good care of me. I just hope it wasn't any kind of abuse. While I have been in situations to push my gear, I tend to listen very carefully and not cross the line into asking too much of it. I imagine once Duke has it in his hands, he may be able to speculate more on what happened.

 

[Interceptor]

I own a fearful and that little 46 prototype. They compliment each other nicely. But, at some point, the desire for simplicity wins.

I play in a band that's getting mostly wine shop, supper club and event work. The volume we are at is low enough that I sure don't need a big rig very often. Rolling in event work has gotten us even more busy, but the downside is there end up to be difficult transports involved. Hauling gear several blocks is common. For difficult to get to gigs, a tiny cabinet is a blessing. Plus, the wide dispersion of something like the birdhaus or a Hathor work exceptionally well in a small stage jazz setting. Being able to hear each other is a big deal in that environment.

The fearful goes in the car for Gospel work or when I'm playing either a bigger room without PA or outdoors. There I like having the firepower, as I tend towards a pretty rich sound.

I am tempted to sell off everything and just get one Hathor.

 

[Doner Designs]

Thanks for your kind words.

The Hathor 1203 probably comes across as slightly louder than the Thunderchild 112 when the midrange switch is in the "growly" position, for the same wattage input. The current version of the Thunderchild 112, version 3, has the "4/8 ohm" switch, and is probably slightly louder for the same voltage input (that is, the same volume control setting on your amp) when it's in "4 ohm" mode, because it will be getting more wattage.

The Hathor 1505 is the most efficient cab I make, and the Thunderchild 115v3 would be the same except that it doesn't have the upper-mid peak that the Hathor 1505 has. But with the midrange "smoothed" on the Hathor 1505, they are the same efficiency. Both are in the same maximum SPL ballpark as the TC212, though they take less watts to get there.

At the moment it looks like the Hathor 1855 will be replaced by the Hathor 1866, because I want a little big more out of the mids, and it will have a tweeter so it will be a three-way. In maximum loudness the Hathor 1866 will be comparable to the Hathor 1505 and Thunderchild 212, but it will take more watts to get there, and in return will "punch" a bit harder.

I don't get many orders for the Thunderchild 118, and the Thunderchild 115 will go louder and has more versatile voicing via its switches, so the TC118 will probably be discontinued.

All of that being said, the differences between cabs that are close to one another in efficiency and/or max SPL is probably pretty small. With the new custom 15" woofer that I'm using in the Hathor 1505 and Thunderchild 115 cabs, they are now probably in the same ballpark as the Thunderchild 212 as far as max SPL.

So if look at efficiency (SPL per watt), it probably goes like this: Birdhaus 46 < TC112/H1203 < H1866 < TC212/H212 < TC115/H1505.

If we look at maximum SPL, probably like this: Birdhaus 46 < TC112/H1203 < H1866/TC212/H212/TC115/H1505.

Yes, I'm putting the Birdhaus 46 and Hathor 212 in there, even though they're not "officially" out yet. Their inclusion makes these relative rankings more complete.

I'm pretty sure that Hathors 1866, 212, and 1505, and Thunderchilds 212 and 115v3, are within about 1 dB of one another in average broadband SPL, though the Hathors cab be louder in the mids than the Thunderchild cabs. The Hathor 1866 will have the strongest bottom end, followed by 212's, and then the single 15's. While your intuition might predict that an 18" woofer will have a soft bottom end, in the 1866 I'm using a woofer with a motor that's about three times as powerful as the Kappalite motor in my 12's and 15's, so it hits pretty hard.

Has the Hathor 15 been discontinued? I don't see it on your website.

 

[John D Harris]

Has the Hathor 15 been discontinued? I don't see it on your website.

It is being or has been updated, but not on the website.
Not sure if it has been finalized or still in the field-test phase.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

I finally got a chance to take pics of my H1203's sitting in my practice shed "studio." Not very good pics but you'll get the idea. I'm debating to move to the next stage of buying two H1544's and a GK MB800 or staying where I'm at. At the very lease I'll add the MB800.

Anyway, here you go. Please excuse their dusty appearance, they are minty BRAND NEW. I just need to wipe them down with a damp cloth.

By the way, when I played the concerts I removed the orange plugs and played with both cabs ported.