AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[TomB]

The Fearless F112 has a larger cabinet and goes deeper than the Thunderchild. I think Greenboy's target is usually the first overtone of low F#, while mine is the first overtone of low B. The MAS 112 is a monster - imo its competition would be my Thunderchild 212. If you only need 112-level output, look at Mike's smaller cabs - he can advise you better than I can.

As for size/weight/price, thank you for your comment - I have tried to make my cabs relatively affordable for "ubercabs".

I'm fairly confident that my Thunderchild cabs would make decent full-range speakers. They are being used as such by several people, including an award-winning studio designer.

Now as far as PA speakers, I'd say that my Thunderchild cabs might not be ideal as they now stand. The power handling of the compression driver is quite adequate for electric bass, but PA is much more demanding in the region that the compression driver covers, so I'd probably want to go up a notch or two in power handling if PA was on the menu.

This is starting to sound like a project I have worked on some but never really brought to completion - something I call the Multi-Role Loudspeaker, or MRL. Basically it's a Thunderchild in a bigger box, with a significantly more beefy compression driver, and probably a different horn. The MRL would make a decent light PA or keyboards or studio cab, in addition to bass guitar.



My current generation Thunderchild cabinets have a switch that goes from "smooth" in the upper mids to "a bit of growly", but it's still not a really aggressive tone in growly mode. The MRL would also have this switch. I'd have to go to a three-way cab to get significantly more aggressive in the upper mids while preserving the hi-fi-ness when the switches are set accordingly, with the weight and price also going up unfortunately.

I hope some of this helps.

Great explanation Duke. When I mentioned using a TC115 as a PA cab, I should add that it was vocals only, no bass or kick. ...sounded wonderful.

 

[nutdog]

I think I've read the greenboy guys saying the fearfuls make better pa cabs than fearless. The F115 and F212 I've dealt with are awesome bass cabs but I'm crazy about the sound/form factor/price of the hathors. But if you want to do PA/home audio/bass the thunderchildren would probably be better for that. No experience with the MAS but speakerhardware.com is making some PA stuff with the same tech.

I'm still totally digging this rig.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

The places where great dispersion makes a big impact are small stages and if pitch matters. In small stage applications, great dispersion helps a bass cut through the clutter on stage. Used to it fullest, that lets the bass player lay the foundation in both chordal and timing depth. Once pitch gets involved, a band that can hear the overtones of a bassist can better control their own pitch. That's a big deal in things other than guitar rock, in those other situations, the players have control over pitch, and harmonizing to a solid bass player makes a band gel. [emphasis Duke's]

That's what I was thinking... well except for, not being a musician, I didn't think it in those words.

This is extremely encouraging to me. You see, I think the place where I have the most to offer is in improving the dispersion of bass cabs. And maybe one of these days, guitar cabs as well. But that would just be for the audience... imo good bass cab dispersion may be more for the band than for the audience.

 

[Interceptor]

If the band hears better the audience hears a better band. Duke, that's what you bring - the stuff to help us out there in bands work together better.

Thank you.

 

[Snaxster]

The 1505 and 1533 have the "4/8 ohm" switch, so they can be set to "8 ohm" mode (at the loss of about 1 dB of efficiency) and safely paralleled with another 8-ohm cab if needed. If you don't need that feature, the switch can be omitted, saving you about a pound in weight.

Hi Duke. Two questions about this, please:

• Can you make an 8 ohm Hathor 1505 without the 4/8 ohm switch?

• If not, can a Hathor 1505 with its 4/8 ohm switch set to 8 ohms be used as a sole cabinet and present a real 8 ohm load to an amp?

Thanks!

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Hi Duke. Two questions about this, please:

• Can you make an 8 ohm Hathor 1505 without the 4/8 ohm switch?

• If not, can a Hathor 1505 with its 4/8 ohm switch set to 8 ohms be used as a sole cabinet and present a real 8 ohm load to an amp?

Thanks!

Hathors 1505 and 1533 are based on my custom 4-ohm Kappalite variant, so the "native" impedance of the cab would be 4 ohms without the switch.

I could use the stock Eminence 3015 (non-LF), it would work just fine, but wouldn't have as much growly in the upper mids as my custom woofer. I've already worked out the crossover just in case someone wanted it.

Another possibility might be an 8-ohm version of the Hathor 212. That would be quite easy to do, as the woofers that I use (3012LF) and the 3" mid that I use (Faital 3FE22) are both available in 4-ohm versions, pairs of which would be wired in series for an 8 ohm load. In fact the power handling for the 4 ohm Kappalite 3012LF is pretty impressive - they claim 550 watts, but the engineer who did the power testing told me that that's not where the woofer failed, that's just where they stopped increasing the power and said "that's enough". The thicker voice coil wire that is often used to get a lower impedance version of a driver can result in higher real-world thermal power handling, even if the specs are not adjusted accordingly by the manufacturer - in this case, Eminence re-tested and adjusted the specs.

 

[Snaxster]

Hathors 1505 and 1533 are based on my custom 4-ohm Kappalite variant, so the "native" impedance of the cab would be 4 ohms without the switch.

I could use the stock Eminence 3015 (non-LF), it would work just fine, but wouldn't have as much growly in the upper mids as my custom woofer. I've already worked out the crossover just in case someone wanted it.

Another possibility might be an 8-ohm version of the Hathor 212. That would be quite easy to do, as the woofers that I use (3012LF) and the 3" mid that I use (Faital 3FE22) are both available in 4-ohm versions, pairs of which would be wired in series for an 8 ohm load. In fact the power handling for the 4 ohm Kappalite 3012LF is pretty impressive - they claim 550 watts, but the engineer who did the power testing told me that that's not where the woofer failed, that's just where they stopped increasing the power and said "that's enough". The thicker voice coil wire that is often used to get a lower impedance version of a driver can result in higher real-world thermal power handling, even if the specs are not adjusted accordingly by the manufacturer - in this case, Eminence re-tested and adjusted the specs.

Duke, thanks for all of that; explanation and creative thinking both.

Hmm... My interest in the Hathor 1505 was its cabinet proportions and its growliness. I asked what I did because of my amps' power ratings at 8 and 4 ohms respectively.

Though my Glockenklang Blue Rock can be set to make 900 watts @ 2.7 Ω, 600 watts @ 4 Ω, and 300 watts @ 8 Ω,

• the DIP switches for that setting are in the worst possible location for my rackmount setup, precluding easy changes

• that mode relegates the amp to single cabinet scenarios at 4 ohms (with the MAS-112 I have, or the Hathor 1505 I might have), [Edit: actually this case is true, but moot] and

• that mode makes the amp under-powered for my single 8 ohm cabinet (F112).

It's true that at 4 ohms both the Glockenklang (1000 watts) and the QSC PLX1804 (900 watts) outmatch the MAS-112. So I should be willing for the same to be true for a stock Hathor 1505. But I was hoping to try stacking the Hathor 1505 and the F112 with one amp channel.

The fact is, though, that I could do that if the Hathor had the impedance switch. So overpowering at 4 ohms is the only concern left standing.

You know my deal: my working musician days 20 years past, currently I have no real world use for any of this anyway. But that could change. And in the meantime I want the chance to play these cabinets as best I can.

 

[Dave Hill]

Hathors 1505 and 1533 are based on my custom 4-ohm Kappalite variant, so the "native" impedance of the cab would be 4 ohms without the switch.

I could use the stock Eminence 3015 (non-LF), it would work just fine, but wouldn't have as much growly in the upper mids as my custom woofer. I've already worked out the crossover just in case someone wanted it.

Another possibility might be an 8-ohm version of the Hathor 212. That would be quite easy to do, as the woofers that I use (3012LF) and the 3" mid that I use (Faital 3FE22) are both available in 4-ohm versions, pairs of which would be wired in series for an 8 ohm load. In fact the power handling for the 4 ohm Kappalite 3012LF is pretty impressive - they claim 550 watts, but the engineer who did the power testing told me that that's not where the woofer failed, that's just where they stopped increasing the power and said "that's enough". The thicker voice coil wire that is often used to get a lower impedance version of a driver can result in higher real-world thermal power handling, even if the specs are not adjusted accordingly by the manufacturer - in this case, Eminence re-tested and adjusted the specs.

Reminds me that everything I've ever experienced or heard of with Eminence is that they are a great group.

 

[Snaxster]

The 1505 and 1533 have the "4/8 ohm" switch

Duke, the smallest of details: Would you consider adding a toggle guard to the "4/8 ohm" switch?

As I imagined myself using a Hathor 1505, I knew that inevitably I would accidentally flip that switch and there would be negative consequences. Covering the switch with a spring-loaded guard would force me to intentionally raise the guard before flipping the switch.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke, the smallest of details: Would you consider adding a toggle guard to the "4/8 ohm" switch?

View attachment 997974

As I imagined myself using a Hathor 1505, I knew that inevitably I would accidentally flip that switch and there would be negative consequences. Covering the switch with a spring-loaded guard would force me to intentionally raise the guard before flipping the switch.

As long as you don't mind having a separate switch-plate, because there isn't room for the toggle-guard on the switch-plate that the "4/8 ohm" switch normally shares with the two other switches.

 

[TomB]

As long as you don't mind having a separate switch-plate, because there isn't room for the toggle-guard on the switch-plate that the "4/8 ohm" switch normally shares with the two other switches.

What if you made it a push-button or something that wouldn't get hit by accident because it's distinct from the other switches?

 

[DukeLeJeune]

What if you made it a push-button or something that wouldn't get hit by accident because it's distinct from the other switches?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll think about and look into that.

One possible issue - it's pretty easy to eyeball or feel a toggle switch and tell if it's up or down; I can see possibly having to push a button to figure out the setting if it's hard to see.

 

[Snaxster]

As long as you don't mind having a separate switch-plate, because there isn't room for the toggle-guard on the switch-plate that the "4/8 ohm" switch normally shares with the two other switches.

Duke, if it would be economically and otherwise feasible for you, my vote would be for the separate plate. Thanks for considering this!

What if you made it a push-button or something that wouldn't get hit by accident because it's distinct from the other switches?

Tom, Hello. I'm with you on your idea of visual or operational differentiation. But speaking of myself, I know that I would as easily accidentally depress a button as flick a switch. That's why I wanted a double opt-in design:

Hathor: "What do you want back here, Snaxster?"
Snaxster: "O Hathor, I want what is beneath your toggle guard."
Hathor: "Prove it!"
Snaxster: (first opt-in: lifts the toggle guard)
Hathor: "Now what do you want?"
Snaxster: "Eight ohms!" (second opt-in: flicks the switch to its 8 ohm position)
Hathor: "It is done."​

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke, if it would be economically and otherwise feasible for you, my vote would be for the separate plate. Thanks for considering this!

I don't think it would be a standard thing, but I could do it on request for a few bucks extra.

 

[Snaxster]

I don't think it would be a standard thing, but I could do it on request for a few bucks extra.

Good deal. Thanks again, Duke.

 

[Selta]

Got my replacement compression driver from Duke today, after a bit of a mess up with my local FedEx driver (not ringing the bell, and then ignoring the signed notice he left Saturday). I have a large gig Tuesday, so I'm hoping to get it dropped in sometime next week.

 

[nutdog]

Drummer posted a rehearsal recording of a new song we're working on. Subway/hathors mic'd. I think a TC spark boost for overdrive.

 

[McFarlin]

I don't think it would be a standard thing, but I could do it on request for a few bucks extra.

Could the extra switch plate have a sliding cover, maybe activated by a thumbprint or retinal scanner?

 

[Snaxster]

[questions about the Hathor 1505 model]

Here is some of what I wrote to Duke today:

"Thank you for fielding my Hathor 1505 questions on TalkBass recently. I did not ask idly. But since then I realized that I was chasing the wrong dream.

After more thinking and research, I realized that today my first Audiokinesis cabinet should be 1. least like what I already have, and 2. most characteristic of your work.

Among your current models, the Hathor 1505 is not that. But the Hathor 1203 is."​

My order for a Hathor 1203 is in!

Nine months ago we were talking about a rather different cabinet. Someday we may return to that. But for now I am sold on the Hathor 1203's reputation, light weight, power to weight ratio, small size, flexibility, and combination of voicing and high fidelity.

The H1203 will be a third lighter and smaller than my F112, which is the smaller of my two main bass cabinets now. I was swayed by that plus rereading Tom Bowlus's comparative test of the H1505 and other AudioKinesis cabinets.

There was something compelling about the way Tom cast the H1505 as being a much stronger 4-string cabinet than it was a 5-string cabinet; and that the H1203 was better balanced for 5-string, yet was strong for 4-string, too. Since I am a 4-string player mostly, but I will be refocusing on 5-string after this year, I decided to weight my choice accordingly.

Though my main interest is in playing the H1203 by itself, I do want to hear it paired with the F112: horizontally atop the vertical F112; and vertically, nearby the wedge-positioned F112.

My thanks go to Duke, of course, but also to everyone here who described in detail their experiences playing the Hathor 1203.

 

[nostatic]

I've gigged the snot out of a single H1203 with both 4 and 5 string. It doesn't mind either way.