AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[4StringTheorist]

I've got one of the early 4 ohm v1 ThunderChild 112s. It has the tweeter rolloff switch and the tweeter killswitch.

I love it, and am toying with the idea of eventually pairing it (when needed) with a Hathor 1203... Or of selling it and moving to an all Hathor setup. Ohhh so many fun options.

 

[Passinwind]

this looks pretty close to what i found on page where you introduced a very sexy looking white tc112v1.

I think that was the first one, or at least the first one Duke went public with. IIRC the paint was still wet when he showed it to me.

 

[steubig]

yeah, it was from a seattle gtg (i think).

 

[Passinwind]

yeah, it was from a seattle gtg (i think).

Right, and that's where I first met Duke in person too.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

is this v1 or v2? looks a little different from the v2 specs i saw on your site. (?)

The specs on my site are more accurate, I had forgotten that what's up there is "version 2" instead of "version 3", the latter being essentially the same cab but with my new custom 15" woofer, and three ports (like the Hathor 115s) instead of four. I had to use longer ports to make four ports work and three ports is just more practical.

Also, I haven't been consistent with my power handling claims. The Kappalite woofers are rated at 450 watts AES (900 watts "program power"), and are imo "quite safe to use with a 500 watt amp". That would make a 212 "quite safe to use with a 1000 watt amp", following the same convention.

 

[slagheap]

god, i'm a sick bastard. absolutely love my 1203s, they're to die for, but already lusting after a 1505. seems like a perfect match for a D800+. I FORBID FURTHER PHOTOS OF 1505 and/or 1533 CABS ( sobbing sound... )

 

[5StringPocket]

Here are a couple more pics of the Hathor 212 from the day it arrived. Unfortunately I've been out of commission for the last week with the flu so I haven't had a chance to push this thing at rehearsal. Sounds killer at home though at moderate volume levels. I'm taking it with me on Monday to rehearsal so I crank it a little.

View attachment 991979 View attachment 991980

The Hathor 212 looks like such a fine "one and done" cab. Just a couple questions. First, it looks like you could get it with a single 5" mid for a little more enhanced upper mids at the tradeoff of some high frequency extension but the 3" mid seems to have that special mojo with the 3012LF so is the 212+33 the ideal pairing for this? Second, the 212 and 15 have similar sensitivity at 97 dB/W so it seems an amp which can put out 500W into 8 ohms or 900W into 4 would provide an extra 2dB into the 212 at max. Since twin 3012LF have more motor and voice coil than the single 15 would the lows be a bit more percussive and have less compression loss with big watts behind it? even with pretty similar -3dB points, I could see this providing a bit different character to the low end. And only 43 lbs with a low end that can be tuned, wow!

 

[TrentB]

The Hathor 212 looks like such a fine "one and done" cab. Just a couple questions. First, it looks like you could get it with a single 5" mid for a little more enhanced upper mids at the tradeoff of some high frequency extension but the 3" mid seems to have that special mojo with the 3012LF so is the 212+33 the ideal pairing for this? Second, the 212 and 15 have similar sensitivity at 97 dB/W so it seems an amp which can put out 500W into 8 ohms or 900W into 4 would provide an extra 2dB into the 212 at max. Since twin 3012LF have more motor and voice coil than the single 15 would the lows be a bit more percussive and have less compression loss with big watts behind it? even with pretty similar -3dB points, I could see this providing a bit different character to the low end. And only 43 lbs with a low end that can be tuned, wow!

I'll let @DukeLeJeune answer your technical questions. When he was planning the 212 he was originally going to go with a single 5" mid but then decided on the two 3" cones. I don't remember his reasoning and I didn't really care either way. I'm sure they would both sound terrific.

I am using a 900 watt head (Darkglass) with the 212 and it can get frickin loud!

 

[DukeLeJeune]

The Hathor 212 looks like such a fine "one and done" cab. Just a couple questions. First, it looks like you could get it with a single 5" mid for a little more enhanced upper mids at the tradeoff of some high frequency extension but the 3" mid seems to have that special mojo with the 3012LF so is the 212+33 the ideal pairing for this?

As TrentB can tell you, my original plan was to use the single 5" cone. But I was getting all this feedback from people saying that the voicing of little 1203 hit the sweet spot, so I decided to go with "two 1203's shoehorned into one box". I can certainly make one with the single 5" cone, but I'm not sure what to call it, because "Hathor 212" is already taken. Maybe "Hathor 212.5"?

The 5" mid is a bit closer to the sound in my head, but I'm not a bass player.

I doubt any of that was helpful!

Second, the 212 and 15 have similar sensitivity at 97 dB/W so it seems an amp which can put out 500W into 8 ohms or 900W into 4 would provide an extra 2dB into the 212 at max. Since twin 3012LF have more motor and voice coil than the single 15 would the lows be a bit more percussive and have less compression loss with big watts behind it? even with pretty similar -3dB points, I could see this providing a bit different character to the low end. And only 43 lbs with a low end that can be tuned, wow!

My 115s are actually about 1.5 dB more efficient than my 212s (that's not counting the increased upper-mid bumpage of my custom 15" woofer). The higher power handling of the 212s puts them back in front by about 1.5 dB given sufficient power. But in practice, the louder upper mids of the 115s make them sound like they have just about the same overall max SPL as the 212, with the 212 having a stronger bottom end.

As you correctly surmised, the two motors in the 212 do result in a more percussive low end, with less compression when pushed hard.

You mentioned the 43 pound weight of the Hathor 212 (glad you like it!)... that would probably climb to 45 or maybe even 46 pounds with the single 5" mid. Not only does it weigh more than the twin 3" mids combined, but I would have to use larger inductors in the switchable midrange smoothing circuit, and those big inductors aren't light.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

god, i'm a sick bastard. absolutely love my 1203s, they're to die for, but already lusting after a 1505. seems like a perfect match for a D800+. I FORBID FURTHER PHOTOS OF 1505 and/or 1533 CABS ( sobbing sound... )

Then I suggest not coming to this thread in the next few days. My 1533 is to arrive tomorrow (Friday). But last time Duke shipped to me the cab arrived a day early!

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I called it an output because IIRC that's the main way I ever used it, with the tweeter switched off and some goofy DIY top box or other plumbed in for test purposes.

Well I guess you're right - it was an output too! Very creative way that you used it, along with the tweeter killswitch.

I think that was the first one, or at least the first one Duke went public with. IIRC the paint was still wet when he showed it to me.

That stupid white Duratex never did dry. It stayed chalky until the day I tossed the empty enclosure into the county landfill.

For those wondering why I threw the enclosure away, it had a fatal design flaw. I had put the two ports up high on the back panel, behind the horn. The result was an asymmetrical airload on the back of the cone. The combination of a small (high internal pressure) box, long voice coil (about twice as long as a normal woofer's), high power, and less back-pressure on one side of the cone at some frequencies resulted in enough cone-rocking to cause the voice coil to tap against the side of the magnetic gap on some notes with an audible "click". The engineer who designed the woofer, Jerry McNutt of Eminence, diagnosed the problem over the phone and suggested that I move the ports down behind the woofer and arrange them symmetrically around it. He suggested the diagonal port configuration that I went into production with.

Right, and that's where I first met Duke in person too.

Yes, and thank you so much for your guidance!

Something else I learned at that GTG. Someone had brought a 410 cab, I think it was a Mesa Boogie but I'm not sure. Anyway, despite all the fancy crossoverness in my prototype Thunderchild, that 410 was a lot closer to the sound in my head. That really brought home to me the fact that I had no idea where the "goal posts" were for an electric bass cab. Eventually I learned a few things the hard way, which ended up helping me to do the Hathor cabs.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

The little rig that could.

 

[5StringPocket]

As TrentB can tell you, my original plan was to use the single 5" cone. But I was getting all this feedback from people saying that the voicing of little 1203 hit the sweet spot, so I decided to go with "two 1203's shoehorned into one box". I can certainly make one with the single 5" cone, but I'm not sure what to call it, because "Hathor 212" is already taken. Maybe "Hathor 212.5"?

The 5" mid is a bit closer to the sound in my head, but I'm not a bass player.

I doubt any of that was helpful!



My 115s are actually about 1.5 dB more efficient than my 212s (that's not counting the increased upper-mid bumpage of my custom 15" woofer). The higher power handling of the 212s puts them back in front by about 1.5 dB given sufficient power. But in practice, the louder upper mids of the 115s make them sound like they have just about the same overall max SPL as the 212, with the 212 having a stronger bottom end.

As you correctly surmised, the two motors in the 212 do result in a more percussive low end, with less compression when pushed hard.

You mentioned the 43 pound weight of the Hathor 212 (glad you like it!)... that would probably climb to 45 or maybe even 46 pounds with the single 5" mid. Not only does it weigh more than the twin 3" mids combined, but I would have to use larger inductors in the switchable midrange smoothing circuit, and those big inductors aren't light.

I have a 15/5 cab with Faital 15PR400 woofer and M5N8-80 mid which is very efficient with great feel and tone like I'm sure your 15 series Hathors have. That open format mid with your crossover wizardry seems to be the game changer. Good low end sculpting provides a full and supportive sound without boom and has a solid punch to lock with the kick. Optimum can be a matter of personal preference but I've had cabs on both ends of the spectrum which ended up being sold. As posted earlier, good midrange dispersion is key to tying the band together and is something I've struggled with. Drummers especially seem to have trouble hearing more than a thump from most bass cabs unless they can be set far enough back to deliver some mid content or there is a well-balanced in ear mix. There is so much good feedback from how these open format mids deliver at the gig. I'd love to hear these at a GTG.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

@slagheap

 

[dave64o]

How stable is that stand with your cab on it? I like that idea.

Hopefully that's footprints on the front of it and not tire tracks .....

 

[slagheap]

@slagheap

View attachment 1005422

AYI YI YI! sweet! I like that stand, too. I've seen those around.

 

[slagheap]

the H1203 pair continue to impress, and i think they're still breaking in. they are punching, banging, barking, and growling. this is all with a D800 - no CA9, that's for sure, but it does have some snap to it! a lot of playing slated for the weekend, can't wait.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

How stable is that stand with your cab on it? I like that idea.

Hopefully that's footprints on the front of it and not tire tracks .....

AYI YI YI! sweet! I like that stand, too. I've seen those around.

The stand is nice. I got the idea from a post here on TB, but I can't remember where. You can get them for about $10-$15 at WalMart.

The cab is stable. The cab won't fall off.

 

[3rdcurve]

Duke, will your new 18xx still utilize the crossfiring mids, or will they be stacked like the 212 and 1533?

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I have a 15/5 cab with Faital 15PR400 woofer and M5N8-80 mid which is very efficient with great feel and tone...

Very nice set of drivers. I don't recall Greenboy using that pairing... who made the cab, if you don't mind me asking?

That open format mid with your crossover wizardry seems to be the game changer... As posted earlier, good midrange dispersion is key to tying the band together and is something I've struggled with. Drummers especially seem to have trouble hearing more than a thump from most bass cabs unless they can be set far enough back to deliver some mid content or there is a well-balanced in ear mix. There is so much good feedback from how these open format mids deliver at the gig. I'd love to hear these at a GTG.

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with the effects of the bass cab's midrange dispersion on the entire band. I had been thinking mostly in terms of dispersion for the audience, until I started paying attention to what you guys have been telling me. This is an area where I think I have something to offer.

Duke, will your new 18xx still utilize the crossfiring mids, or will they be stacked like the 212 and 1533?

The current plan is for a single 6" mid. If all goes well, I'll offer versions with and without a tweeter.