Proper banjo meaning 4 string
No love for extended range banjos around these parts?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...
- Thread starter Thor
- Start date
No love for extended range banjos around these parts?
Proper banjo meaning 4 string
I learned on 5-string, not sure I could play a 4.
Here is the 5-string in action:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I have a question for the Collective, and possibly Duke himself.
I have a Hathor 1203 that I've run successfully with an Ashdown LB-30 and CTM-15, both all tube (as well as solid state amps). But I'm trying it with an Ampeg PF-20t all-tube amp and it's not quite working out.
There seems to be a resonance or feedback of some kind. I can reproduce it at the same pitches with two different basses, in two different rooms, on the floor or elevated on a cushion, and with the amp physically removed from the cab. In every case the behavior is the same.
With the port open, notes seem to resonate around Eb and E played on either the E- (open and octave) or the A strings. With the port plugged, it happens around B and C on the E and A. This occurs at a modest at-home practice volume, and it's not subtle or musical.
Maybe this amp/cab pairing isn't going to work, which is fine. But I would like to understand better what's going on even if I ultimately unload the Ampeg. I'm generally aware of the interaction between tube power amps and loudspeakers (I'm also an EE), but I'm trying to figure out why this particular amp has such a problematic interaction with the Hathor when two other tube amps have worked wonderfully.
Any thoughts or similar experiences?
I have a Hathor 1203 that I've run successfully with an Ashdown LB-30 and CTM-15, both all tube (as well as solid state amps). But I'm trying it with an Ampeg PF-20t all-tube amp and it's not quite working out.
There seems to be a resonance or feedback of some kind. I can reproduce it at the same pitches with two different basses, in two different rooms, on the floor or elevated on a cushion, and with the amp physically removed from the cab. In every case the behavior is the same.
With the port open, notes seem to resonate around Eb and E played on either the E- (open and octave) or the A strings. With the port plugged, it happens around B and C on the E and A. This occurs at a modest at-home practice volume, and it's not subtle or musical.
Maybe this amp/cab pairing isn't going to work, which is fine. But I would like to understand better what's going on even if I ultimately unload the Ampeg. I'm generally aware of the interaction between tube power amps and loudspeakers (I'm also an EE), but I'm trying to figure out why this particular amp has such a problematic interaction with the Hathor when two other tube amps have worked wonderfully.
Any thoughts or similar experiences?
The Changeling 112 is basically a Hathor 1203 with a second, rear-firing 3" mid in its own little open-format chamber. Here are a couple of pictures:
If you look closely, you'll see three switches. The middle switch is labeled "0" and "-7" (you can't see the latter from this angle). Its purpose is to shelve down the rear-firing mid by about 7 dB, for situations where stage volume is an issue. Normally the rear-firing mid is about 3 dB down relative to the front-firing mid over most of the spectrum, so maybe I should have labeled them "-3" and "-10".
Anyway, the idea is related to open-back guitar cabs. You know how a good open-back guitar cab sounds richer and more enveloping than a closed-back cab? Well, the Changeling format leans heavily in that direction, but without the drawbacks of an open-back guitar cab: muddy low end, and sometimes too much stage volume (we have that -7 dB switch).
Something else I had in mind was, making it easier for your fellow musicians to hear what you're doing. For some genres (like "conversational" jazz), and for jam sessions, that can be beneficial.
Since we lose a little bit of internal volume, I went with three small ports instead of the one big port that you had in your Hathor 1203 cabs. With all three ports open, we actually have a little bit more low end than with the one big port, because the tuning frequency is a bit higher. And with one small port plugged, the tuning frequency is virtually identical to the single-port 1203. In fact current-build 1203s now have the three small ports. This raised the weight by about one pound, due to the additional bracing needed, so now the Hathor 1203 is a 26-pound cab.
I think the Changeling format is my future, and plan to do a bunch of different Changeling cabs, including a "112T", which uses a Taller box than the regular version, same footprint, giving us a bit more low end.
Hi Duke. Here is Mr. Two Weeks Later, finally trying to catch up with the... well, the changeling that is AudioKinesis.
A few minutes ago I was playing my passive 5-string J Fodera through my Baer Valkyrie in tube mode (using just a bit of EQ for the room), driving my one-port Hathor 1203 with both switches down. With the pickups or tone pot in any amounts, with any technique, the little Hathor conveyed it all: the dynamics and harmonic complexity; the wooly, husky, thick, metallic, detailed, sweet, and sonorous voice of the instrument; all beautifully, faithfully, and spatially presented.
This design is a real honey, Duke. So you improved upon it? Subjectively/aesthetically as well as measurably?
Also, I wonder if you will still make the old Hathor 1203 cabinet if someone requests it. Thanks either way. I know that nothing lasts forever!
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
I haven't run into the situation you describe before, and I've been trying to think of things that might be causing a resonance or feedback with the one amp but not with others that should have been more susceptible to that sort of thing. Thus far I far have come up short - I don't have any good suggestions. So like you, I'm hoping someone else has some ideas.
Thank you!!
Well unfortunately I don't think the improvements extend to the aesthetics, nor the raw measurements... I think they fall more into the category of "subjective", and arise from the additional off-axis mid and high frequency energy from the rear-firing mid(s). Kinda like an open-back guitar cab, but with greater flexibility.
The Hathors are still very much in production, as they are more competitive from a weight and cost standpoint. The Changelings imo sound a bit better, and include the rest of the band in that, to a switch-adjustable extent.
Since I'm now doing a Changeling 112T (for "Tall"), I can also easily do a Hathor 112T, with the same 22" height as the Thunderchild 112, and correspondingly deeper low-end extension due to the increased internal volume.
The Changelings and the Hathors will run side-by-side unless the market tells me that it only wants one or the other. The first Changeling 115 shipped last week, and I'm working on a 118 version now. In general there are enough boards in common between the Changelings and Hathors, and imo enough difference in what they emphasize, that it makes sense for me to offer both.
Duke, thanks for all of your reply, but especially for that part.
Long live the king!
if Duke can't answer, ask Aged Horse.
The Hathor 1203 hit an amazing "sweet spot", I'm not sure it can be beat as an all around 12" cab.
I would very much be into that. Especially in a vertical configuration that's wide enough for, say, a Mesa D800 (think it's one of the wider class D heads).
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Thank you!
I don't plan to pull the plug on the Hathors unless the market tells me to.
Yup!
I looked it up and the D800's footprint seems to be 10 5/8" wide by 11 1/4" deep, is that right? If so, no problem on the width. But on the depth, how close do the feet come to the front and rear edges? Or, to put it another way, what's the shallowest the cab could be and still work with that amp?
Do you guys realize how fortunate we all are to have a guy like Duke and his cabs? Not only is he willing to stretch and make new things as requested (unlike... dare I say... most other boutique builders of anything), but he answers our questions, offers customer service second to none, and somehow keeps his prices well within reach?
From the website pics, the feet look to be within a half-inch or so from the corners.
Subway D-800 Bass Head | MESA/Boogie®
Subway D-800 Bass Head | MESA/Boogie®
I would either use the same footprint as the h1203, or same width and maybe 12" deep - or whatever would fit on top of a Hathor. Or maybe 12"X12" would fit inside the corners on the H1203?
I would buy an H210. Between that and H1203 and H1203CT I'd be set for life.
Or until you come up with some new Hathor...
When I'm home later I'll post some pics of both D800 and D800+ on top of the H1203 for reference.
Last edited:
Thanks, guys. It's not a problem that thought I could solve, but I was curious if anyone had experienced something similar. I think I will just have to let the amp go, because I'm not giving up my Hathors.
Aside from sounding great together the subway is a perfect fit on top of the 1203. With the back edges aligned the feet straddle the handle recess but remain inside the corners while the front doesn't block the top mid vents. Shown with optional disco ball attachment.
Well, I will finally be trying out a 1203 in a bit, but I guess my D800+ is not an optimal fit on top......I'll see how that plays out. Looking forward to it......any suggestions on who makes a good padded custom cover for a Hathor 1203?
