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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

#6,161
DukeLeJeune said:
I see you've been reading my mind again. Just don't post anything too compromising that you happen to stumble across...

I'm doing the back-and-forth mull between 12 x 11.5" footprint and 14 x 10" footprint (in both cases not counting grille pooch-outage)... the former is a bit more efficient use of resources, but the latter would be more likely to fit into the trunk of a small car. I recall seeing at least one compact-car-cab thread recently where in effect the cab had to be able to squeeze through an 11" high window in order to fit into the car's trunk.
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FWIW, 10" depth is pushing the limits on fit for quite a few modern amps that I can think of. Especially if you are going to use top ports. But I drive a van anyway...
Yel_wink.gif
 
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#6,162
DukeLeJeune said:
I see you've been reading my mind again. Just don't post anything too compromising that you happen to stumble across...

I'm doing the back-and-forth mull between 12 x 11.5" footprint and 14 x 10" footprint (in both cases not counting grille pooch-outage)... the former is a bit more efficient use of resources, but the latter would be more likely to fit into the trunk of a small car. I recall seeing at least one compact-car-cab thread recently where in effect the cab had to be able to squeeze through an 11" high window in order to fit into the car's trunk.
Click to expand...
Just wondering:
The distance from front baffle to rear panel has no impact on woofer tone / performance?
For some reason depth of cab under 12" seems more acceptable for woofers under 12" - just my weird brain.
 
#6,163
Marial said:
This is the sum total of my experience with the Super Midget.

I've yet to find the TC's limits, but I haven't look for them either.
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I think the Super Midget is incredibly attractive because of it's weight, but I would just go with a standard Hathor 112 over it myself. With Duke who he is (an incredibly kind and dedicated person), with the fact that he is in the States (you never know when gear needs a fix or a tune up) and the fact that I have his TC112 and it continues to be everything I could have hoped for and more, I can say that a few pounds less than a Hathor wouldn't steer me away from playing an AK. I've also thought about the Super Midget honestly, but then I think about all of these things, plug into my TC112 and I know I'll continue to play AK cabs. :)
 
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#6,164
emjazz said:
I think the Super Midget is incredibly attractive because of it's weight, but I would just go with a standard Hathor 112 over it myself. With Duke who he is (an incredibly kind and dedicated person), with the fact that he is in the States (you never know when gear needs a fix or a tune up) and the fact that I have his TC112 and it continues to be everything I could have hoped for and more, I can say that a few pounds less than a Hathor wouldn't steer me away from playing an AK. I've also thought about the Super Midget honestly, but then I think about all of these things, plug into my TC112 and I know I'll continue to play AK cabs. :)
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I had been debating between Hathor 12, Super Midget, BF two ten, and Super Compact for a while for my next cab.....looking for the smallest / most portable, single, toneful cab to reliably keep up with a moderate/sane rock drummer.....I have tried an embarrassing number of small cabs, mostly 112s.........I had a pair of BF One10s which were great and tiny....but 2 boxes....I have a tiny Genzler 10-2 array for use with ABG/ no drummer/particularly quiet drummer......in the end I ordered a Hathor....for some of the reasons quoted above, but also because other than for ABG, I like a voiced cab (not PA-like), and the fact that the Hathor is a real bargain in the super cab universe......and in spite of its' finish, lol...........looking forward to trying one out.
 
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#6,165
RasGK said:
I guess the Super Midget's top end would be more similar to the Hathor 1203's, wouldn't it?
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Doesn't the Super Midget use a tweeter? The Hathor cabs use a little paper cone, not sure there would be a whole lot of similarity.

Passinwind said:
FWIW, 10" depth is pushing the limits on fit for quite a few modern amps that I can think of. Especially if you are going to use top ports. But I drive a van anyway...
Click to expand...

That's very helpful... don't want to populate my lineup with too many unusable cabs!! Looks like I can bump the enclosure depth up to 10.5".

John D Harris said:
Just wondering:
The distance from front baffle to rear panel has no impact on woofer tone / performance?
For some reason depth of cab under 12" seems more acceptable for woofers under 12" - just my weird brain.
Click to expand...

If by chance we get a nice ratio of internal dimensions, then less damping material is needed, and imo that is desirable. So it's not just one dimension that matters - it's all three.

One effect of the fairly large midrange chambers of the Hathor and Changeling cabs is, they make the internal height of the cab a bit "fuzzy", and to a lesser extent they make the depth of the cab a bit "fuzzy". I think this is a good thing, but I don't think it constitutes a major improvement.

In general a square footprint calls for more internal damping material than a rectangular footprint does, but either one can work well.
 
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#6,167
slagheap said:
generally i feel the smaller & lighter the better, but to me an H1203 is already tiny. i'd have to hear a noticeable improvement in the sound arena before i'd go smaller for smaller's sake.
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The Hathor 1203 was my original response to calls for a 110 cab, and I still don't know of an off-the-shelf 10" woofer that does enough of what I want.

The market niche where smaller & lighter seems to score big is double-bass. I may do a dedicated version for those guys.
 
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#6,168
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#6,169
DukeLeJeune said:
The Hathor 1203 was my original response to calls for a 110 cab, and I still don't know of an off-the-shelf 10" woofer that does enough of what I want.

The market niche where smaller & lighter seems to score big is double-bass. I may do a dedicated version for those guys.
Click to expand...

I think a 1-10" is pretty much no-go for gigging. A 2-10 is sometimes just on the edge (I'm shocked at how well a single H1203 does full band situations though). How light could a 3-10" be, vertical, 14" width so you can stagger the 10s? Stuff a 3" in for some sparkle.
 
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#6,170
nostatic said:
I think a 1-10" is pretty much no-go for gigging. A 2-10 is sometimes just on the edge (I'm shocked at how well a single H1203 does full band situations though). How light could a 3-10" be, vertical, 14" width so you can stagger the 10s? Stuff a 3" in for some sparkle.
Click to expand...

A 310 would be down the road a bit, but it could happen. Weight would probably be in the lower to mid 50's. Imo we'd need more than one 3" cone to go along with. I probably wouldn't stagger the 10's as not much is gained once horizontal bracing between woofers is factored in.
 
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#6,175
DukeLeJeune said:
A 310 would be down the road a bit, but it could happen. Weight would probably be in the lower to mid 50's. Imo we'd need more than one 3" cone to go along with. I probably wouldn't stagger the 10's as not much is gained once horizontal bracing between woofers is factored in.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll retract that - too heavy. I think a 2-10 around 30 lbs would be pretty awesome, though maybe 35 is more realistic.
 
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#6,176
engedi1 said:
I don't feel a need for a Hathor 1x10 in the slightest. It wouldn't be smaller enough or lighter enough to justify it imho.
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That's okay, I'll still make other stuff!!

Marial said:
I don't a point with a 110 either. Vertical 210 though......
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There will be some things my 10" woofer does better than the stock Kappalite 3012LF, and vice-versa.

nostatic said:
Ok, I'll retract that - too heavy. I think a 2-10 around 30 lbs would be pretty awesome, though maybe 35 is more realistic.
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Unfortunately I don't see how a 30 pound Hathor-ish Kappalite-class 210 is possible. The weight difference between the 10" and 12" Kappalites is no more than a couple of ounces (the website says they are both 7.6 pounds). Might save two or three pounds total in cabinet and crossover relative to the Hathor 212, putting us right around 40 pounds.
 
#6,177
DukeLeJeune said:
Unfortunately I don't see how a 30 pound Hathor-ish Kappalite-class 210 is possible. The weight difference between the 10" and 12" Kappalites is no more than a couple of ounces (the website says they are both 7.6 pounds). Might save two or three pounds total in cabinet and crossover relative to the Hathor 212, putting us right around 40 pounds.
Click to expand...

Hmm. In that case I'd like just add more H1203s or H1203CTs to the fire. With chronic back/neck issues, I try to stay below 30lbs at all costs. Once the CT shows up I'll be selling the Mesa 1-12 as it is just north of 30#.
 
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#6,178
nostatic said:
Hmm. In that case I'd like just add more H1203s or H1203CTs to the fire. With chronic back/neck issues, I try to stay below 30lbs at all costs. Once the CT shows up I'll be selling the Mesa 1-12 as it is just north of 30#.
Click to expand...

I see... bummer.

Unfortunately I don't really see an opportunity to make a significantly louder 30-pound cab without paying a penalty somewhere along the way.
 
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#6,179
DukeLeJeune said:
I see... bummer.

Unfortunately I don't really see an opportunity to make a significantly louder 30-pound cab without paying a penalty somewhere along the way.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are guys who would go for a heavier cab. To me the H1203 is pretty magic, a 210 variant would be interesting sonically but I bet it wouldn't challenge on the tone-to-weight calculation.
 
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