Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
Hey Jeff, I need to visit you all of a sudden.Looks great! I should have mine early next week as it has just cleared customs
Didn't know you were getting one.
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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...
- Thread starter Thor
- Start date
Didn't know you were getting one.
All those years of sniffing avgas fumes has caught up with me. I thought I saw nostatic with a jazz.
In other news, record low temperatures in Hell have been reported...
Quick reaction to the C1203T - the plugs make a big difference. All in is very tight and rolled-off low end. All out sounds pretty damn huge. The three switches (up from two on my H1203) are also great for fine tuning. For instance the JJ (*eek*) sounds a bit better with the mid-edge off, the YYD better with it on.
Haven't compared it directly with the H1203 yet, going to connect with steubig for a cabpalooza but next two days are nuts for me with 2 gigs on Saturday, downbeats 4 hours and 120 miles apart. Which in SoCal could mean 2-4 hours of drive time.
Darn it, Nutdog.
I was about to call and ask for his credit card information!
x 2
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Good question!
The 18 runs fullrange with no filtering - I'd need an 11 gauge inductor (or two double-the-value 14-gauge inductors in parallel) to have adequate power handling if I wanted to put any filtering on the 18. Not light, not cheap. Fortunately the top end of the 18HP1060 is relatively extended and unusually well-behaved for an 18" prosound sub.
All of the filtering is on the mid and "tweets", and the filtering on the mid is fairly complicated, in order to blend well with the un-filtered 18, but the power handling requirements for the mid filter are much easier to live with.
The two 3's are wired in parallel, which boosts their voltage sensitivity by 6 dB relative to a single 3. The highpass filter on the 3's is high enough and steep enough to give us adequate power handling for electric bass - but it would be inadequate for keyboards, for example.
Is the keyboard issue due to the synthesized tones having equal voltage output at all freqs as apposed to Bass/guitar/recorded music having variable/diminished voltage in the high end due to instrument range.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Keyboards probably do have reduced output as we go up in frequency, but not nearly as much as electric bass. And keyboards can have sustained high-frequency energy that results in heat building up in small voice coils faster than it can be dissipated, so imo we need to start out with pretty good power handling in our high frequency section if keys are on the menu.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,069
- 46,012
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Yep. Much as I love my TC112, guitar synth can bring it to its knees pretty easily if using patches with a lot of HF density. Actually, guitar synth might be the worst case, since it often gets mixed with distorted signal off the guitar itself as well.
And yeah, the VCF (voltage controlled filter) in a synth is often used to create less spectral density as frequency increases. Many audio generators used on test benches do this automatically as well.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
Are the Hi Freq drivers protected in any way? Just incase..
I NEVER run keys thru my rig .. It is me( bass only)
I NEVER run keys thru my rig .. It is me( bass only)
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Yes. There is a small-value, but high-power-handling inductor in series with the "tweeters" that rolls off the ultrasonics, and this protects them against most fault conditions. They can still be cooked I suppose, but I've yet to have a single failure of any of the 3" cones on my cabs out in the field. Twice someone have thought the driver had failed and I replaced it, but in both cases the drivers returned to me were actually fine, so I think it was something else in their system.
On a special-order basis I have, on occasion, made a "keyboards friendly" verison of my Thunderchild 112, with a higher-power-handling compression driver. I don't think there really is a higher power handling alternative to the 3" cone that I use.
I would think this 'keyboard issue' is really a synth issue. I can't imagine my Rhodes piano stressing any cab unless played at ear bleed volumes.
I gave you the canine avatar discount.
I don't know about keys but I slammed those poor little 3's with a ton of extremely loud fuzz and other assorted effects on numerous and they survived. Not sure about my ears.
Best place to sort out new gear is on a gig - particularly when you've got two in one day 120 miles apart. After playing guitar at an old friend's wedding, it was freeway flying back north for an 8:30pm downbeat. First gig for the Changeling as well as the Sadowsky JJ. Plug in, line check and go. Pretty damn bad ass combination. A lot of booty - dance floor was packed. I think the C1203T is as advertised. Steubig is coming over tomorrow for cabpalooza so we'll have a better chance to A/B things.
Cabpalooza 2017
The participants:
TC112 v1 4ohm, H1203, C1203T
Bergantino Forte, Mesa D800, Ashdown Retroglide 800
Fodera 12-string fretted, Fodera 12-string fretless, Fodera YYD, Sadowsky NYC JJ 4-21, Sadowsky Satin Dlx 5-21
steubig and nostatic (and Ivan the cat)
The purpose:
Because we can? Always chasing tone, we figured this was about as good an A/B/C as you could get.
The method:
We plug stuff in, play, plug other stuff in, play. You know - highly scientific. Actually one of steubig's tricks (which I've come to appreciate) is playing intervals that will beat, like m2, M2, M7, m9, etc. It is interesting to hear how different basses, amps, and cabs reproduce and induce those tones.
The results:
Sorry, no excel spreadsheets or data plots. Rather some somewhat random comments, and I'm sure steubig will chime in with his thoughts.
First off, this was the first time I'd played either of the 12-strings. We did a gig together last month but didn't swap basses. I played the fretless and it is pretty wacky and a bit disconcerting at first. Mostly that you have to fret two strings, and you have to pluck two strings - and that is not something that feels "normal" coming from a typical bass. The sound is pretty epic though. Steubig was able to do a convincing Roger McGuinn thing, and then almost harpsichord type stuff. Definitely does not sound like a 6-string at all.
For the cabs, the TC112 extends a bit lower, but the C1203T is a bit thicker in the upper lows to my ear. I think it has maybe less of the fundamental but more of the overtones. I still am not crazy about the horn on the TC112, but the cabinet sounds more open to me. Not sure if that is partially due to where the 12" crosses over to the horn relative to the 3" driver, or the signature of the horn itself. The C1203T is a bit like the TC112 just shifted up a bit, but I find the mids and highs to present very differently.
We mostly used the Forte to swap between cabs. That amp is less colored than the Mesa. The Retroglide was interesting, but wasn't my cup of tea. Since I'm not in the amp market at the moment (or any market at the moment), we didn't exhaustively swap amps.
The C1203T is a bit different than the H1203. It may extend a hair lower, but mostly it just has more support for the low notes. In addition, the mid switch is either a slightly different circuit, or the presence of the rear 3" changes the dynamic. I find that I like the H1203 with both switches "up" (full range and mid grind), whereas with the C1203T I prefer the mid grind off. The rear-firing 3" does make a difference - notes feel/sound a bit less "flat". Last night at the gig we were loud enough that I don't think it helped the drummer. Instead I pointed the entire H1203 at his head
. So I suspect that switch will be on, as will the full-range. We had all the plugs out of all the cabs - I prefer that sound, but the C1203T will do a pretty convincing sealed cab impersonation if you so desire.
Of course the real insane part is that I'm digging the JJ basses, particularly the 4-string. 7.7 lbs, balances perfectly on a strap - makes for a pretty painless 2 or 3 set night.
The participants:
TC112 v1 4ohm, H1203, C1203T
Bergantino Forte, Mesa D800, Ashdown Retroglide 800
Fodera 12-string fretted, Fodera 12-string fretless, Fodera YYD, Sadowsky NYC JJ 4-21, Sadowsky Satin Dlx 5-21
steubig and nostatic (and Ivan the cat)
The purpose:
Because we can? Always chasing tone, we figured this was about as good an A/B/C as you could get.
The method:
We plug stuff in, play, plug other stuff in, play. You know - highly scientific. Actually one of steubig's tricks (which I've come to appreciate) is playing intervals that will beat, like m2, M2, M7, m9, etc. It is interesting to hear how different basses, amps, and cabs reproduce and induce those tones.
The results:
Sorry, no excel spreadsheets or data plots. Rather some somewhat random comments, and I'm sure steubig will chime in with his thoughts.
First off, this was the first time I'd played either of the 12-strings. We did a gig together last month but didn't swap basses. I played the fretless and it is pretty wacky and a bit disconcerting at first. Mostly that you have to fret two strings, and you have to pluck two strings - and that is not something that feels "normal" coming from a typical bass. The sound is pretty epic though. Steubig was able to do a convincing Roger McGuinn thing, and then almost harpsichord type stuff. Definitely does not sound like a 6-string at all.
For the cabs, the TC112 extends a bit lower, but the C1203T is a bit thicker in the upper lows to my ear. I think it has maybe less of the fundamental but more of the overtones. I still am not crazy about the horn on the TC112, but the cabinet sounds more open to me. Not sure if that is partially due to where the 12" crosses over to the horn relative to the 3" driver, or the signature of the horn itself. The C1203T is a bit like the TC112 just shifted up a bit, but I find the mids and highs to present very differently.
We mostly used the Forte to swap between cabs. That amp is less colored than the Mesa. The Retroglide was interesting, but wasn't my cup of tea. Since I'm not in the amp market at the moment (or any market at the moment), we didn't exhaustively swap amps.
The C1203T is a bit different than the H1203. It may extend a hair lower, but mostly it just has more support for the low notes. In addition, the mid switch is either a slightly different circuit, or the presence of the rear 3" changes the dynamic. I find that I like the H1203 with both switches "up" (full range and mid grind), whereas with the C1203T I prefer the mid grind off. The rear-firing 3" does make a difference - notes feel/sound a bit less "flat". Last night at the gig we were loud enough that I don't think it helped the drummer. Instead I pointed the entire H1203 at his head
. So I suspect that switch will be on, as will the full-range. We had all the plugs out of all the cabs - I prefer that sound, but the C1203T will do a pretty convincing sealed cab impersonation if you so desire.Of course the real insane part is that I'm digging the JJ basses, particularly the 4-string. 7.7 lbs, balances perfectly on a strap - makes for a pretty painless 2 or 3 set night.
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Some sonic evidence from last night. Sadowsky JJ into the H1203/C1203T combo. Zoom recorder somewhere out in the crowd..
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A bit off the beaten path for a Steely Dan tribute band...
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A bit off the beaten path for a Steely Dan tribute band...
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