AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[slagheap]

I have several AK Hathors. Wouldn't be adverse to ordering an additional 1506, but not until Duke solicits more business here. Reckon he'll let us know when he's ready.

 

[SemiDriven]

The hathor does go a little deeper and louder due to more internal space.

That does makes sense (however, others seem to think that the C112 goes a bit deeper).

The changeling has a little more acoustic sparkle if you will. Hard to describe.

So perhaps "acoustic sparkle" is another way of saying 3D sound? Maybe clearer notes with a touch of zing?

Both are absoloutly amazing.

Hence the dilemma!

 

[SemiDriven]

i tend to “prefer” the hathor and tc112 at home, but i sure seem to have done a lot of gigs with the c112t.

So you lean towards grabbing the C112T for gigs when using AK cabs. The rear-firing cone makes a difference for the venues you play in? Just curious.

 

[SemiDriven]

I wish I could say I'd had the pleasure of playing both. I can only tell you I've had zero complaints about the tone of my C112T, and would heartily recommend it.

Good to know!

In fact, I'm hopeful I might be able to give it a bit more of a go now that I have a 5 string again (picked up a Dingwall Combustion recently). Unfortunately I live in a unit block, so letting it rip is a little hard. I miss being able to rehearse properly...!

Why do I get the feeling that one must "rehearse properly" when using one of Duke's cabs?

 

[Lowendtech]

That does makes sense (however, others seem to think that the C112 goes a bit deeper).



So perhaps "acoustic sparkle" is another way of saying 3D sound? Maybe clearer notes with a touch of zing?



Hence the dilemma!

Only thing I have, is to consider your amp. Is it inherently bright or dark or somewhere in between. Pick the cab that is most likely to compliment your amp and what you want to hear. You can’t go wrong either way. I picked the C but I’m sure I’d have been just as happy with the H. Maybe more so as I don’t really need as much of the highs as the C can produce most times. But when I switch the rear mid down, I can definitely tell that it’s not there.
The Hathor’s are also easier for Duke to make So maybe quicker on the build.
A conundrum wrapped up in an enigma.

 

[been_effected]

I hear rooftop concerts are possible. Some band did it a while ago and it was pretty good.

Damn, someone else always takes the good ideas

 

[been_effected]

Good to know!



Why do I get the feeling that one must "rehearse properly" when using one of Duke's cabs?

Because the only way to truly know is to turn them up loud and make them sing

 

[Wangopengo]

That does makes sense (however, others seem to think that the C112 goes a bit deeper).

Just get both. Haha.
Ya 3d sound would be a good description for the changeling.
The changeling gives off a little more ambiant sound in the mids that can be good for others on stage to hear, like drummers etc.
I find it awesome when playing with other acoustic instuments and im the only one plugged in.
Just to be clear i was talking about the tall version of both cabs.

So perhaps "acoustic sparkle" is another way of saying 3D sound? Maybe clearer notes with a touch of zing?



Hence the dilemma!

 

[MarkA]

That does makes sense (however, others seem to think that the C112 goes a bit deeper)

I can't speak to the tall versions of the cabs, but I've had an earlier (non-tall) Hathor 1203 (one port) for awhile and picked up a Changeling 12 (three ports) not long ago. I've had the Hathor out in several settings but did not get a chance to take the Changeling out before, well, things got tamped down.

With the ports plugged on both cabs, the Hathor does sound a bit more full and solid in the bass than the Changeling. I attribute this, as others have said, to some cab volume being taken up by the second mid chamber (and maybe, to a much smaller extent, by a larger crossover?); could also be a different voicing/distribution of power among three speakers rather than two.

This holds with the ports open, too, but I've got a less clear concept of that sound in my head, since I don't usually practice that way at home. I'd imagine that the tall versions of the cabs might compare similarly to each other, but, if I were to guess, I'd say that going "tall" (4" taller, if I recall rightly) would net one more volume, vs. the standard Hathor, than would be lost to the mid chamber. In other words, I would expect the tall Changeling to sound deeper than the standard Hathor.

So perhaps "acoustic sparkle" is another way of saying 3D sound? Maybe clearer notes with a touch of zing?

Again, referring to the non-tall versions of the cabs, the Changeling does come across as brighter and more open than the Hathor, even with the rear mid in the "7 dB down" position (and bringing it up is definitely noticeable). Noodling with clean-to-lightly overdriven guitar through the cabs, I had a clear preference for the Changeling. With bass, I'm more drawn to the more "direct" sound of the Hathor, but I've been practicing through the Changeling and getting used to it and liking it. Too, the cabs are right up against a reflective wall and window in my apartment, so maybe not the best way to judge.

I filled-in for a musical theater thing last year (I think I mentioned this somewhere) where the guy on sound wanted the cab in front of me (said I'd be able to "listen through the port"). I got to have it off to the side, at least, but if I'd had to stand behind it (would've been a first for me), no question -- the rear-firing mid would have been useful.

The Hathor is a pretty easy to monitor cab, overall, though I could see the Changeling helping drummers and maybe other folks off to the side of it hearing more nuance and upper-frequency content via "spreading the sound -- direct and reflected -- around back." If this lets you take some bass out of stage monitors, it could actually help clean up the stage and house sound.

Where I see a potential challenge is if you're right up against a reflective surface, maybe, where you're standing, things could feel a bit less coherent -- this is largely conjecture on my part, with some extrapolation based on practicing in my modest apartment with the cabs inches from a wall and glass. (I could see similar issues -- maybe moreso, for the Berg HG cabs, which have a rear-facing woofer -- but I've never played those, let alone played them in a bar/club.) People who've actually had the Changelings out can comment more usefully than I on this.

Turning the mid down 7dB obviously makes a difference. Would be interesting to be able to turn it off, too, but I don't know what complexity this would add or, ultimately, how worthwhile it would be.
--
For what it's worth, I've been digging the Changeling lately with one port open and a little bit of bass boost. (Mike Arnopol suggested running it that way -- it gives me some of the clear, quick-feeling response that I dig from sealed cabs with more extension, though you still have to goose the bass just a bit to counter the rolloff). If I had to play a big/loud room or otherwise needed to get the most out of the cabs, though, it would be ports open. (Which is still nice - nicer in some ways - the sealed thing is more about my personal tastes, though it can help tune to a room, too.)

Also for what it's worth, I've been playing a Handbox R-400 through the AK cabs and it's a fab match -- they sound great (and feel good) together -- though the 400 Watts from the amp (~250 @ 8 Ohms) wouldn't push the cabs the way some higher-powered amps might. Still, might be louder than you'd think.

The other amp that I thought sounded great (through the Hathor, didn't have the Changeling at the time) was a Glockenklang Heart Rock II -- beautiful through the Hathor, but a bit much for that one little cab. Alas, I don't have that amp anymore. Pretty sure it would slay with a stack.

The Hathor has gotten along with with most amps I've plugged into it -- I like some more than others, true, but it's pretty easy that way.

 

[steubig]

So you lean towards grabbing the C112T for gigs when using AK cabs. The rear-firing cone makes a difference for the venues you play in? Just curious.

it was mostly me being on the fence about it, so i took it out a lot to make sure. then it opened up and i realized i like it a lot.

i mostly play low-volume jazz/improv gig with horn players who are unamplified, so it works well for that. i think the tc122v1 works for a slightly darker version of that; also for r&b-ish gigs. the hathors are great for metro stuff and work well for my stereo rig where i also do synth stuff. (probably tmi)

 

[SemiDriven]

Only thing I have, is to consider your amp. Is it inherently bright or dark or somewhere in between. Pick the cab that is most likely to compliment your amp and what you want to hear. You can’t go wrong either way.

Good advice. Subway 800+ should pair well with either H/C cab.

I picked the C but I’m sure I’d have been just as happy with the H. Maybe more so as I don’t really need as much of the highs as the C can produce most times. But when I switch the rear mid down, I can definitely tell that it’s not there.

I don't play a ton in the upper regions, but when I do, it's nice to know the magic "sparkle" on an AK C-cab is there (and can be turned "down"). Having options is a beautiful thing.

The Hathor’s are also easier for Duke to make So maybe quicker on the build.

Good point! This blasted virus thing is making us all wait for life to get back to a "new" normal. A cab from Duke (from what I read) is definitely worth waiting for--virus or no virus.

A conundrum wrapped up in an enigma.

HA! -- a new marketing slogan for Duke?

 

[SemiDriven]

With bass, I'm more drawn to the more "direct" sound of the Hathor....

The Hathor has gotten along with with most amps I've plugged into it -- I like some more than others, true, but it's pretty easy that way.

The Hathor is a pretty easy to monitor cab, overall, though I could see the Changeling helping drummers and maybe other folks off to the side of it hearing more nuance and upper-frequency content via "spreading the sound -- direct and reflected -- around back." If this lets you take some bass out of stage monitors, it could actually help clean up the stage and house sound.

Where I see a potential challenge is if you're right up against a reflective surface, maybe, where you're standing, things could feel a bit less coherent -- this is largely conjecture on my part, with some extrapolation based on practicing in my modest apartment with the cabs inches from a wall and glass. (I could see similar issues -- maybe moreso, for the Berg HG cabs, which have a rear-facing woofer -- but I've never played those, let alone played them in a bar/club.) People who've actually had the Changelings out can comment more usefully than I on this.

Turning the mid down 7dB obviously makes a difference. Would be interesting to be able to turn it off, too, but I don't know what complexity this would add or, ultimately, how worthwhile it would be.

For what it's worth, I've been digging the Changeling lately with one port open and a little bit of bass boost. (Mike Arnopol suggested running it that way -- it gives me some of the clear, quick-feeling response that I dig from sealed cabs with more extension, though you still have to goose the bass just a bit to counter the rolloff). If I had to play a big/loud room or otherwise needed to get the most out of the cabs, though, it would be ports open.

Good stuff Mark -- thanks!

 

[SemiDriven]

it was mostly me being on the fence about it, so i took it out a lot to make sure. then it opened up and i realized i like it a lot.

i mostly play low-volume jazz/improv gig with horn players who are unamplified, so it works well for that. i think the tc122v1 works for a slightly darker version of that; also for r&b-ish gigs. the hathors are great for metro stuff and work well for my stereo rig where i also do synth stuff. (probably tmi)

I can definitely see how a Changeling could benefit a Jazz trio, quartet, etc. Yeah it sounds like a stereo rig could cover all the bases.

It seems to me that the Hathor cabs would sit very well in a rock setting. The Changeling cabs would also do well with the option of a bit more high end sizzle (if needed/wanted) as well as better(?) disbursement on the stage (i.e. happier band mates).

 

[Frank77]

I can definitely see how a Changeling could benefit a Jazz trio, quartet, etc. Yeah it sounds like a stereo rig could cover all the bases.

It seems to me that the Hathor cabs would sit very well in a rock setting. The Changeling cabs would also do well with the option of a bit more high end sizzle (if needed/wanted) as well as better(?) disbursement on the stage (i.e. happier band mates).

I can definitely see how a Changeling could benefit a Jazz trio, quartet, etc. Yeah it sounds like a stereo rig could cover all the bases.

It seems to me that the Hathor cabs would sit very well in a rock setting. The Changeling cabs would also do well with the option of a bit more high end sizzle (if needed/wanted) as well as better(?) disbursement on the stage (i.e. happier band mates).

I'll probably be no help at all: I've taken a standard Hathor for a test drive, and now own a Changeling 112 Tall. The truth is you can't go wrong with either of these designs.

As far as the high end on the Changeling, you can tame it down with the corresponding voicing switch. I find that this cab can go from a round, old school tone with both the mids and highs switches down, to hi-fi with both switches up (aka "full nasty" mode). Add all the possibilities that opening / plugging the ports offer, and I really don't know what territory these cabs won't cover.

For what it's worth, I use this cab mainly to play funk in a rather loud context (horn section, loud drummer), but also to play upright in quieter / jazzier contexts. It does great at both.

 

[SemiDriven]

I'll probably be no help at all: I've taken a standard Hathor for a test drive, and now own a Changeling 112 Tall. The truth is you can't go wrong with either of these designs.

As far as the high end on the Changeling, you can tame it down with the corresponding voicing switch. I find that this cab can go from a round, old school tone with both the mids and highs switches down, to hi-fi with both switches up (aka "full nasty" mode). Add all the possibilities that opening / plugging the ports offer, and I really don't know what territory these cabs won't cover.

You're right -- absolutely no help whatsoever! And you're right again -- either one will put a smile on your face!

Yeah, I ping-pong between the two cabs. I ran across the post below (written over a year ago) right before I read yours. The needle seems to be moving towards the C112T.

Just a quick mention of how superbly the C112T and new Mesa WD-800 worked together at tonight's gig. Once again the sound tech appreciated the lack of overly deep bass from the stage and our drummer loves that rear firing mid driver. Duke's design approach may look a little odd at first, but his cabs deliver in every area, especially for providing a great stage monitoring environment for the bass player and the other band members as well.

 

[Type-55]

Still looking for a used Hathor 1203.

 

[MarkA]

A conundrum wrapped up in an enigma.

HA! -- a new marketing slogan for Duke?

Sorry, guys -- that one's taken.

 

[otto B]

I am selling my TC112 AF V1 with the tilt handle and cover, in case someone may be interested.

For Sale - Audiokinesis TC112AF V1 With Cover

 

[bassically_eli]

I just purchased Otto's TC 112AF v1--Thanks again! He wasn't entirely sure if it is 4 ohms, so I'll measure the DC resistance when it arrives. According to the Kappalite specs I found, it should either be 3.9 (nominal 4ohm version) or 5.6 (8 ohm version). Which leads me to my question: did the v1 use the (now discontinued) stock Kappalite 3012LF-4, or a custom version)?

Also, if it is 4 ohms, could I add a 4/8 ohm switch like on some of Duke's other cabs? Is it as simple as soldering a resistor to the input? That would be pretty awesome.

 

[Passinwind]

I just purchased Otto's TC 112AF v1--Thanks again! He wasn't entirely sure if it is 4 ohms, so I'll measure the DC resistance when it arrives. According to the Kappalite specs I found, it should either be 3.9 (nominal 4ohm version) or 5.6 (8 ohm version). Which leads me to my question: did the v1 use the (now discontinued) stock Kappalite 3012LF-4, or a custom version)?

Also, if it is 4 ohms, could I add a 4/8 ohm switch like on some of Duke's other cabs? Is it as simple as soldering a resistor to the input? That would be pretty awesome.

AFAIK all the V1 cabs that were four ohms (i.e. all of them? Not sure on that, but 8 ohms was not an original option) used an OEM spec Kappalite.