AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[Dee-man]

Great to see you here, Duke! Stay safe.

 

[nutdog]

Yeesh. I was typing out this long excuse about why I discontinued the Birdhaus cabs and why I can't bring them back but you guys are working against me here, and faster than I can type.

How about this: I really gotta get caught up before adding anything else to my current lineup, and no promises just yet, except that I'll take another look at doing them again.

You need to advance the birdhaus concept if you get back into it. Maybe soccer ball cab with speakers in the black hex's?

Honestly, I appreciate everything you've brought to bass cab design, but if you stopped doing anything but the 1203 it would be enough. I thought and still think it's the perfect cab.

 

[MarkA]

Has anyone tried any of the hybrid tube amps like the Milkman Half and Half or Handbox R400 with the Hathor 1203?

I'm thinking about a new head purchase at the beginning of the year to go with my pair of 1203's. I've generally been running a Two Notes Le Bass in front of my old Genz Shuttle for a little more grit, but I'd really like to do away with bringing my board when I'm also hauling my amp. I tried a Tone Hammer head a while back and it was OK, but not quite what I was looking for.

An old Genz Streamliner might be the ticket, but those are tricky to find and I'm not positive about those either.

The Mesa TT-800 and WD-800 are two other amps that I'd be interested in checking out.

I'm going for the PBass with flats, B-15ish kind of sound, with a little top end grit and presence.

I have a Handbox R-400 and have taken it out on a few occasions with a single 1203 and a Hathor + Changeling stack. Posted about it not long ago in this thread and, awhile before that, posted some soundclips of my P-bass through the Handbox and the Hathor, with the switches in different positions and the port (old, one-port Hathor in the clips) plugged and unplugged. I didn't do anything extreme with the EQ, but it should give you some idea.

 

[slagheap]

There's a good looking Birdhaus on SF Bay area CL - $650.

 

[Dee-man]

There's a good looking Birdhaus on SF Bay area CL - $650.

There won't be in less than 5 minutes. It's the same one as the one that Donahue posted pics of earlier today.

I should say that I still have 3 of Duke's cabs. I haven't abandoned you, Duke, I swear! Never!

 

[DukeLeJeune]

if you stopped doing anything but the 1203 it would be enough. I thought and still think it's the perfect cab.

I got lucky with the Hathor 1203.

Is the Birdhouse in production?

darn it, now i kinda want a birdhaus.

There needs to be more birdhouse designs.

You need to advance the birdhaus concept if you get back into it.

Can you imagine a slightly larger 4x12 birdhouse?

Guys, I'm going to need your guidance here.

My instinct is that the Birdhaus format is best suited to small cabs. I tried a 4x10 and the aforementioned 4x15 and imo they were okay but not great. One of the issues is that as we go up in cone size, we lose top-end extension.

Another concern of mine is that the Birdhaus format isn't competitive with other formats in SPL versus weight or SPL versus cost. It's kind of a one trick pony - it does the dispersion thing well. Is that enough? You guys are making me think it might be:

When I first tried mine with the band (after using a 1 x 15 combo amp for a long time) I couldn’t get over how my bass sounded about the same from anywhere in the room, including looking down at the cabinet from above. Very even distribution of all the frequencies I need to hear.

No shortage on tone or low end.

My instinct is that the 4x8 is the "sweet spot" for the Birdhaus format, because it apparently has enough extension both top and bottom, and because it can be made in either 4 or 8 ohm versions (the latter in case someone wants to stack a pair for large gigs).

But let me know what YOU GUYS think and want.

 

[mexicanyella]

I got lucky with the Hathor 1203.











Guys, I'm going to need your guidance here.

My instinct is that the Birdhaus format is best suited to small cabs. I tried a 4x10 and the aforementioned 4x15 and imo they were okay but not great. One of the issues is that as we go up in cone size, we lose top-end extension.

Another concern of mine is that the Birdhaus format isn't competitive with other formats in SPL versus weight or SPL versus cost. It's kind of a one trick pony - it does the dispersion thing well. Is that enough? You guys are making me think it might be:





My instinct is that the 4x8 is the "sweet spot" for the Birdhaus format, because it apparently has enough extension both top and bottom, and because it can be made in either 4 or 8 ohm versions (the latter in case someone wants to stack a pair for large gigs).

But let me know what YOU GUYS think and want.

Full disclosure: the B48 was a large leap forward for me in bass cab performance and quality. I have not put in any time on other newish, high-end designs, so I don’t have much basis for comparison to comment on what Duke said above about cost/weight/SPL matters and market competition. Still, I think my ears work well enough to say what follows with confidence, and most of my B48 time has been alongside loud drums and a 100-watt Marshall half-stack.

Duke, here’s my feedback update, after a few years with the later-box-design B48:

I definitely feel like the four 8PR200s in that box kick out a full-range-enough signal for me, and I even have the tweet cheat circuit uncoupled in mine.

When the dark times of isolation began last year, the B48 came home from our practice space and it pulled triple duty, getting electric guitar and lap steel played through it also. I bounced back and forth to my Scorpion-equipped Peavey combos and the frequency response range between the two was close enough that small EQ tweaks got the sounds into the same ballpark.

No one ever really says SS Peaveys through Scorpions are inappropriate for cleanish twang, or for clean steel guitar, so I think the fact that the B48 can get there with only minor, easy EQ tweaks speaks very highly to its versatility. There is really no disadvantage at all to me using it for my non-bass instruments, other than it’s usually at our practice space for bass duty.

And even without the tweet cheat frequensator module connected, it seems very flexible and smooth with bass. Maybe someone with tastes that ran to bass guitar frequencies above 4 kHz or so would miss the tweet cheat, or an actual tweeter...but for my needs it can go considerebly higher than I need it to.

Apologies if I’ve asked this before and forgotten...did the earlier, deeper box design also have the tweet cheat circuit? Were there appreciable differences in sound, or frequency dispersion, between the two shapes?

 

[Dee-man]

The prototype 48 had no cheater circuit. Same Faital 8s. Bigger cabinet (rectangular, not a box like the "production" model), but still under 40 lbs and very portable (those great Duke handles). I've had both the 48 and 46, and the 48 is, as Duke said, the sweet spot between the two. At its worst, the 2 front-firing speakers have more surface area than a 115, but a lot more punch and quickness. But then you add the two side-firing speakers and that's all bonus. I think the cab performs better indoors than outdoors, at least for the audience, but not necessarily the rest of the band. I'm guessing it takes a good deal more time to build these, but there isn't a crossover, right? So maybe not. Seeing how a brand new Fearless 110 seems to go for 1200-ish, I would think there's room below that price range to make it attractive. But I do think that the birdhaus works better for jazz and not-so loud rock stuff, but once everybody starts getting really loud, I can see the benefits of the cab not being appreciated, or able to keep up adequately with a stack of front-firing speakers. Which I guess is another way of saying that it's strength of great dispersion doesn't shine in those contexts. But it's such a unique cab, and it sounds so good, that it might be worthwhile as a special order or something like that. Maybe even mix it up, with 10s or 12s front-firing, and 8s on the sides, etc.? (I know, 10s are not served at Duke's buffet, but still....)

But it's got to be satisfying for you to build these too, Duke. You may rather use your creative time differently, IDK. I used my B48 mostly at my band practice space, so I can't offer too much more personal experience, other than to say how much I like the cab. What do others think?

 

[Al Kraft]

I've not had an opportunity to play a Birdhaus format, but I suspect the 8 inch driver version would be close to ideal in terms of a sweet spot in multiple design goal areas (e.g. performance, size, weight, etc.). I can only credibly comment on the C112T and I am still amazed every time I use it.

I think if I were Duke, I would select whatever design(s) seems to be the most popular that I could produce the most quickly. While I will be the first to tell anyone that Duke's products are well worth the wait and much more than worth the price, it would be nice for us (and likely better for Duke's cash flow) if the lead times were shorter.

I'm not sure if it's possible to do and still keep the "hand-built attention to detail" quality levels, but I keep wondering if Duke could find a manufacturing partner (local small business or bigger company licensee) to build his designs. Since there isn't much out there that I've seen at any price to compete with the unique products Duke gives us, maybe it's both the magic in his head (design) and his hands (production) that make his products so exceptional.

 

[WG Plum]

I played the rectangular prototype and loved it. I'd definitely be interested if it ever makes a comeback.

 

[staccatogrowl]

I am not on a waiting list, but once new orders are accepted, I'd go for Hathor 112T, or a regular Hathor. A 2-port version (matches what I have now) would be grand, as would current model. 8ohm

 

[31HZ]

I just want a Hathor and maybe a Changeling.

Duke, I hope that you're well, and that things are becoming increasingly "normal" for you. You're a treasure for those of use who have even passing knowledge of your products and service, and you've got a lot of people on your side. And the fact that you're even willing to entertain the idea of revisiting the "birdhouse" is a testament to this.

 

[mexicanyella]

I just want a Hathor and maybe a Changeling.

Duke, I hope that you're well, and that things are becoming increasingly "normal" for you. You're a treasure for those of use who have even passing knowledge of your products and service, and you've got a lot of people on your side. And the fact that you're even willing to entertain the idea of revisiting the "birdhouse" is a testament to this.

I second all that, and add that your willingness to share knowledge and the thinking behind your design decisions is above and beyond. It has certainly enrichened my bass playing headspace.

 

[donahue]

I tried the Birdhaus 48 at rehearsal and it was awesome! It's a small room and it filled the room right up. I actually had to turn down significantly from where I had it at home and thats just with a 200w amp.
Also, my bandmates were impressed with my "state of the art scientifically developed side firing" cab. Speakers for everybody.

I have a gig on the 22nd (first in two years woo hoo!) and I'll be using the 48. I'm going to use it for a while and see if I can make it my main cab. I think it's up to the task.

Also as Dee-man stated I bet a Birdhaus with, say, 12s in front and 8s on the sides would be amazing. Wouldn't be too large or heavy.

A 2x12 cab is a really great cab to start with and then you throw in a couple side firing speakers and as stated above that's just pure bonus. Or if the 212 is too big to produce maybe make 1x12 with a side firing speaker in a modular setup?

 

[mexicanyella]

I tried the Birdhaus 48 at rehearsal and it was awesome! It's a small room and it filled the room right up. I actually had to turn down significantly from where I had it at home and thats just with a 200w amp.
Also, my bandmates were impressed with my "state of the art scientifically developed side firing" cab. Speakers for everybody.

I have a gig on the 22nd (first in two years woo hoo!) and I'll be using the 48. I'm going to use it for a while and see if I can make it my main cab. I think it's up to the task.

Ha ha! compare your bandmates to mine...yours: “state of the art scientifically developed side firing cab”

mine: “man, that little thing’s got some ass on it”

Note that both ends of this spectrum still convey enthusiastic appreciation for the design.

 

[noahw1]

I simply dream about being able to order another Hathor 1203 or a 1203T some day. I have no need for one at this point (or ever?) but knowing that I could hit the stage with two would make me really happy.
There's really nothing else I desire. A Genzler Magellan 800 and Hathor 1203 has taken away all my gas... except for, possibly, another 1203.

 

[stubborne]

One and done with the H1506!

 

[DennyOnBass]

I have a Handbox R-400 and have taken it out on a few occasions with a single 1203 and a Hathor + Changeling stack. Posted about it not long ago in this thread and, awhile before that, posted some soundclips of my P-bass through the Handbox and the Hathor, with the switches in different positions and the port (old, one-port Hathor in the clips) plugged and unplugged. I didn't do anything extreme with the EQ, but it should give you some idea.

Thanks for the heads up on this! Still deciding what I'm going to do and am in no hurry, but this was helpful!

 

[DennyOnBass]

I simply dream about being able to order another Hathor 1203 or a 1203T some day. I have no need for one at this point (or ever?) but knowing that I could hit the stage with two would make me really happy.
There's really nothing else I desire. A Genzler Magellan 800 and Hathor 1203 has taken away all my gas... except for, possibly, another 1203.

I found my second one earlier this year. Other than being told to turn down all the time, I'm really happy with the extra heft and presence that you get from a pair of them. I'm definitely not wanting for volume or tone!

 

[noahw1]

I found my second one earlier this year. Other than being told to turn down all the time, I'm really happy with the extra heft and presence that you get from a pair of them. I'm definitely not wanting for volume or tone!

That's funny. I used to play in a 7 piece cover band, with 2 guitar players (one who gets very loud), and my single hathor brought out the "turn down" comments. I guess it cuts in just the right way.