AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[TomB]

It's not my rig (and going from memory on the Rane and Eden Navigator), but I think the Rane offers fully parametric EQ while the Eden is only semi-parametric (fixed Q). This would allow for greater fine tuning when/if needed.

That makes sense. The Eden controls are not very “broad” - a little goes a long way and then they interact. So I can see it, but personally, in a live situation, I doubt my (protected) ears could hear it . Cool rig though!

 

[MarkA]

Thanks for the heads up on this! Still deciding what I'm going to do and am in no hurry, but this was helpful!

No worries. Glad you found it helpful.

Don't know if you saw my post, a few pages back, about playing the Hathor/Changeling stack at the outdoor charity event (and, earlier, in the too-loud bar, where I A/Bed the Handbox with a Quilter Bass Block) but, in short, I feel the head is a great match for the cabs tone- and feel-wise.

Given the power handling of the cabs (1000 Watts for the stack of two) and their moderate sensitivity, I wouldn't mind if the head (400 Watts @ 4 Ohms, guessing ~250 Watts @ 8 Ohms) were half-again as powerful. That said, if you're sharing your rig with people who might not use it as judiciously as you'd like, the cab-headroom isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong -- I have and like kilowatt amps and have played them through multiple setups without issue, but I get nervous sharing a setup like that in certain situations. (Speaking of which, I might be wise to employ a CAUTION sign like you have, @31 hz, on certain amps.)

If I were looking for a single cab to pair with an amp like the Handbox and cover a variety of stuff, I'd probably be looking at one of the 4 Ohm, 15" Hathor cabs (note: I've only played the twelves). The 212 is of course a possibility -- and the form-factor might suit some folks and situations better -- but, from what I gather from the AK site and conversation here, the 15 is at least as sensitive as two 12s (98 dB/W/m vs. 97), though the two twelves will hit harder (two motors) and handle more power if push comes to shove.

 

[Philonius]

I think Duke mentioned just a page or two downthread that he no longer plans to build 212’s or other cabs with two large main drivers. You know; for self-preservation.

 

[31HZ]

It's not my rig (and going from memory on the Rane and Eden Navigator), but I think the Rane offers fully parametric EQ while the Eden is only semi-parametric (fixed Q). This would allow for greater fine tuning when/if needed.

Quite right. I use the Rane for tuning specific room nodes and matching the cab to the stage sound, while the EQ on the Eden preamp is for tone tweaks while playing. And if an opening act is using the rig, they have the freedom to make tone changes on the Eden without changing PEQ settings that make the cab sound its best in the room.

 

[smeet]

I’ve heard a bit of talk about Quilter cabs lately, has anybody tried them and compared to the AK offerings? I like the Hathor sound, too bad they are so hard to find.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I think Duke mentioned just a page or two downthread that he no longer plans to build 212’s or other cabs with two large main drivers. You know; for self-preservation.

I can no longer work fast enough to assemble a two-brace cab (one horizontal brace in between the woofers, then another in between upper woof and horn or mid-chamber at the top of the cabinet). The second horizontal brace makes it much more difficult, and the race against glue-drying time becomes more than I can manage. I just can't install all the clamps fast enough anymore. I have been able to break the big glue-up down into multiple steps so that it's do-able with a less complicated cab, assembly time being increased by about one day. So theoretically I MIGHT be able to do a 118 cab at some point as long as it's not too complicated, assuming I can manage the weight, but probably not a 212.

Though the AK wait time concerns me, I mean, concerns my friend.

It concerns me too... I mean, it concerns my friend.

I like the Hathor sound, too bad they are so hard to find.

I expect to begin taking orders again before the end of October. Not that I'll necessarily be entirely caught-up by then, but I'm shooting for being caught up enough that new orders become feasible.

* * *

I have a question mainly for those of you with Hathor 1203 and Changeling 112 cabs: How often do you use the switches on the back? You see, I'm thinking about offering a switchless option to reduce weight and cost. The cab would be permanently voiced as if both switches are UP (a bit of grindy in the mids, and then full top-end extension).

 

[steubig]

often do you use the switches on the back? You see, I'm thinking about offering a switchless option to reduce weight and cost. The cab would be permanently voiced as if both switches are UP (a bit of grindy in the mids, and then full top-end extension).

i use them fairly frequently. but i tend to like a less-bright sound.

 

[SemiDriven]

I have a question mainly for those of you with Hathor 1203 and Changeling 112 cabs: How often do you use the switches on the back? You see, I'm thinking about offering a switchless option to reduce weight and cost. The cab would be permanently voiced as if both switches are UP (a bit of grindy in the mids, and then full top-end extension).

Most of the time on the H1203T I leave the switches both up or the top one up and the bottom one down. So although I am switch flipping, there's really only two settings I prefer to use (for now).

You could have a standard order (permanently voiced) with the option of adding the switches. But it sounds like you want to bypass that option for the sake of time & $$ if no one really flips switches.

 

[mmbongo]

I have a question mainly for those of you with Hathor 1203 and Changeling 112 cabs: How often do you use the switches on the back? You see, I'm thinking about offering a switchless option to reduce weight and cost. The cab would be permanently voiced as if both switches are UP (a bit of grindy in the mids, and then full top-end extension).

I use the switches quite often. Alone, I like each cab to have less highs. If I use both together I will switch one to have more highs.

You may have missed the suggestion I emailed you a while back (or maybe it was a stupid idea!) about offering a simple single woofer cab. You'd likely have to look at a driver like the Deltalite 2512 but it has a nice midrange snap and you could still work your low end cabinet tuning magic on it. It would not need any type of crossover at all. Just a woofer in a beautifully designed AK box that would even weigh less than a 1203. Probably 6-7 pounds less! Problem is you'd probably sell so many of them that you'd get behind again

 

[smeet]

I have a question mainly for those of you with Hathor 1203 and Changeling 112 cabs: How often do you use the switches on the back? You see, I'm thinking about offering a switchless option to reduce weight and cost. The cab would be permanently voiced as if both switches are UP (a bit of grindy in the mids, and then full top-end extension).

I don't have and haven't heard any of your 112 cabinets. But judging from the 212 I have, I would love a no-switches version. Switches up!

 

[Philonius]

I have a C 112 and use the switches...occasionally. Default position is both up. Truth be told, I could easily live without, but would also consider myself a luddite, so don't put too much stock in that. It seems to me that since you have a limited production capacity and more potential orders than you can deal with, you might as well keep building the best cabs possible; with switches. I suppose there could be an economic advantage to cranking out more/simpler cabinets, and who could blame you.
I consider myself really fortunate to have what is pretty close to the ideal do it all one cab solution in the Changeling, though I'm in danger of developing a lust for a BirdHaus 48.

 

[Ken Lloyd]

i use them fairly frequently. but i tend to like a less-bright sound.

* * *

I have a question mainly for those of you with Hathor 1203 and Changeling 112 cabs: How often do you use the switches on the back? You see, I'm thinking about offering a switchless option to reduce weight and cost. The cab would be permanently voiced as if both switches are UP (a bit of grindy in the mids, and then full top-end extension).

Hello Duke. When I was playing 5string exclusively or even 4 and 5 on gigs, I used to adjust the port plugs and switches a fair amount. I’ve left the grind switch up forever for a long while now. Lately it’s been 4 string exclusively and I don’t touch the ports or the switches. Everything up.

I volunteer to be your beta tester for a 1203 Tall with no switches, permanent grind and top. To my ear my 1203T projects better, sounds bigger and deeper than the C112 non tall, pretty much no matter where the switches are. Except for the very occasional jazz gigs when I play fretless, I reach for the 1203T every gig, sometimes adding the C112 for the really big sound needed in large rooms or outdoors or with drummers who think no one can hear them. (my amp is a Mesa Subway 800 and when I think I need to rework the tone, I adjust the contour before reaching in back of the cab)

Glad you’re back in the swing Duke.

 

[nutdog]

I think mine are always both up. Since I'm not sure it must mean I don't use them. I do use the plug from time to time.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I thank you all for replying to my switchology question. It sounds like for most of you, the switches play a significant role in what makes the 1203 et al desirable.

I think mine are always both up. Since I'm not sure it must mean I don't use them.

This brings up something I hadn't thought of: Nutdog probably cycled through the switches at least once to hear what worked best for him, so someone who had never played with the cab probably wouldn't be able to reliably guess in advance the switches would be "needed" to get the tone they want. So the no-switches option might actually make the most sense for someone buying a second cab who already know that's what they wanted.

You may have missed the suggestion I emailed you a while back (or maybe it was a stupid idea!) about offering a simple single woofer cab. You'd likely have to look at a driver like the Deltalite 2512 but it has a nice midrange snap and you could still work your low end cabinet tuning magic on it. It would not need any type of crossover at all. Just a woofer in a beautifully designed AK box that would even weigh less than a 1203. Probably 6-7 pounds less! Problem is you'd probably sell so many of them that you'd get behind again

Sorry I didn't respond! I was pretty much brain-dead at the time and could neither put together a decent reply nor remember that I hadn't done so and owed you a response.

Imo the Kappalite 3012LF you originally mentioned ticks the most boxes as a woofer-only mini-cab. My math says that excursion (rather than the 250 watts power handling) is the limiting factor for the Deltalite. Apparently the Kappalite 3012LF has what it takes for the size gigs many of you have, but I'm not sure the Deltalite would, so my inclination is to do something based on the Kappalite.

Theoretically I could do a little midless tweetless cab with just a 1203LF, and it could be as small as 16" tall by 14" wide by 14" deep. With the handle on one side and not recessed the internal volume would be the same as the 18" tall Hathor 1203. Might make a decent mass-transit-friendly cab, and/or a nice little sidekick for the 1203 et al.

 

[mmbongo]

Theoretically I could do a little midless tweetless cab with just a 1203LF, and it could be as small as 16" tall by 14" wide by 14" deep. With the handle on one side and not recessed the internal volume would be the same as the 18" tall Hathor 1203. Might make a decent mass-transit-friendly cab, and/or a nice little sidekick for the 1203 et al.

I think so, and that's exactly how I was going to use it...just as a 2nd cab to my C112t. I wouldn't need two cabs with mid/tweet, although I did eventually get a 1203 to fill that role

I tried the 3012LF woofer in a cab by itself but it was way too dark for me so it would not be a cab I would use standalone with that driver.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I tried the 3012LF woofer in a cab by itself but it was way too dark for me so it would not be a cab I would use standalone with that driver.

Yeah the ideal 12" bass cab woofer doesn't seem to exist. It arguably might be a 3012LF with more top end. Maybe I should do a cab with a 3012LF and a small midrange cone... hmmm...

 

[5StringPocket]

The Eminence KL3012CX-8 is an excellent bass speaker that delivers a low end pretty close to the 3012LF and extends to about 3.5kHz. In 1.8 cu-ft tuned to 51 Hz it will go down to about 40 Hz. It doesn’t have that huge 1.7kHz spike and is not dark like the 3012LF. It makes for simple construction but takes a 1001ASD HF driver and 3.5kHz hi pass filter. The treble is quite smooth but if you just want a single full range driver, the Beyma 12WR400 has a lot to offer.

 

[MIMike]

What about a 1200T sub? Voice it however you need to for efficient production, a couple of front firing ports(?), with the idea that it would be used in conjunction with a 1203H or C to fill a larger stage/venue application. If the 112 driver was full range enough, it could even be used as a stand alone, but as a sub option, it might be a lower cost, easier to produce, additional cab to stack. It wouldn’t need any switches or crossover with the single driver.

 

[steubig]

I thank you all for replying to my switchology question. It sounds like for most of you, the switches play a significant role in what makes the 1203 et al desirable.



This brings up something I hadn't thought of: Nutdog probably cycled through the switches at least once to hear what worked best for him, so someone who had never played with the cab probably wouldn't be able to reliably guess in advance the switches would be "needed" to get the tone they want. So the no-switches option might actually make the most sense for someone buying a second cab who already know that's what they wanted.


Theoretically I could do a little midless tweetless cab with just a 1203LF, and it could be as small as 16" tall by 14" wide by 14" deep. With the handle on one side and not recessed the internal volume would be the same as the 18" tall Hathor 1203. Might make a decent mass-transit-friendly cab, and/or a nice little sidekick for the 1203 et al.

first. i should have mentioned that are times when i have the switches all the way up in the hathors (running stereo and some effects) and time when i have them all the way down. so i like the possibilities.

a tweetless cab would be awesome. on thing i like about the tc112 v1 is the ability to bypass the horn completely.

 

[Dee-man]

Glad to hear you might still be able to do a 118 again, Duke. I took an earlier TC118 (with rear-firing horn and 1 switch) to practice yesterday and - hoo-baby! - that cab has serious authority. There's room to put your hands under the edge of the lowest notes it goes so deep. Mmmm...