AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[smeet]

Is there a sonic difference between the 12" and 15" Hathors?

 

[stubborne]

Is there a sonic difference between the 12" and 15" Hathors?

Certainly a question for Duke. Here is a response from him when I was shopping 3 years ago! I think this is OK to post:

"My 15" Hathor cabs go a lot louder than their 12" counterparts. I have customers who own both, and have tried them both together (with the "4/8 ohm" switch set to "8 ohms" on the 115 cab). Most of them have told me that the 115 all by itself, in "4 ohm" mode, is just as loud as the two cabs together. I suspect that sufficient power would tip the scales in favor of the two-cab stack, but a single Hathor 15" cab is pretty darn loud.
On all of my Hathor cabs, the midrange and woofer overlap in the crossover region, ballpark 1.5 kHz. The "midrange smoother switch" reduces the output of both the woofer and mid in the crossover region, and the "top end roll-off" switch reduces the top end of the midrange cone(s). "

So, Duke mostly pointed out the perception of loudness. Another snippet from him:

"On paper" my 12" cabs go a little bit deeper than my 15" cabs, but most people who have heard them side-by-side (including me) would say that the 15" cabs sound like they have a slightly bigger bottom end. I don't have an explanation for this discrepancy. Perhaps my measurements of the woofer in the 115 cab have an error in them. " YMMV?

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

I have a birdhouse 46 . It’s a great cab

 

[mexicanyella]

I have a birdhouse 46 . It’s a great cab

How do you use yours, in what kind of setting, and what do you power it with?

 

[Joebone]

Certainly a question for Duke. Here is a response from him when I was shopping 3 years ago! I think this is OK to post:

"My 15" Hathor cabs go a lot louder than their 12" counterparts. I have customers who own both, and have tried them both together (with the "4/8 ohm" switch set to "8 ohms" on the 115 cab). Most of them have told me that the 115 all by itself, in "4 ohm" mode, is just as loud as the two cabs together. I suspect that sufficient power would tip the scales in favor of the two-cab stack, but a single Hathor 15" cab is pretty darn loud.
On all of my Hathor cabs, the midrange and woofer overlap in the crossover region, ballpark 1.5 kHz. The "midrange smoother switch" reduces the output of both the woofer and mid in the crossover region, and the "top end roll-off" switch reduces the top end of the midrange cone(s). "

So, Duke mostly pointed out the perception of loudness. Another snippet from him:

"On paper" my 12" cabs go a little bit deeper than my 15" cabs, but most people who have heard them side-by-side (including me) would say that the 15" cabs sound like they have a slightly bigger bottom end. I don't have an explanation for this discrepancy. Perhaps my measurements of the woofer in the 115 cab have an error in them. " YMMV?

Have used TC 12s, going back to version 1, and TC and Hathor 15. No more twelves for me - and I concur with the observations in Stubborne's post.

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

I use the 46 with fretless bass, a Skjold, with friends who play acoustics I use the baby Sumo amp and the Shaw tube injection pre it sounds natural and full with the acoustic instruments

 

[mexicanyella]

I use the 46 with fretless bass, a Skjold, with friends who play acoustics I use the baby Sumo amp and the Shaw tube injection pre it sounds natural and full with the acoustic instruments

Cool; any chance you’d post a rig pic? That sounds like an interesting one!

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

Right now I have this mini rug setup for practice while watching tv!
I’ll set up the 46 and take a picture in the next couple of days.

 

[mexicanyella]

Right now I have this mini rug setup for practice while watching tv!
I’ll set up the 46 and take a picture in the next couple of days.View attachment 4423985

Cool! I was unfamiliar with that preamp. Just looked it up, looks straightforward and you can’t argue with the case size for stacking on that cab! All my cab-powering options are ludicrously wider than my B48. Someday, maybe...

 

[Dee-man]

The Shaw Tube Injection is the shizzle dizzle. Octal tube, great padding control and "fat" switch. There's one for sale here at a nice price (no affiliation).

 

[DukeLeJeune]

The prototype 48 had no cheater circuit. Same Faital 8s. Bigger cabinet (rectangular, not a box like the "production" model), but still under 40 lbs and very portable (those great Duke handles).

Thank you very much Dee-man for responding to mexicanyella's questions, I had forgotten the specifics and was rummaging around for the answers.

Seeing how a brand new Fearless 110 seems to go for 1200-ish, I would think there's room below that price range to make it attractive.

Oboy... cost. Do you guys have any idea what's happening to the cost of wood (including specialty plywood) these days? Wood costs have approximately trippled over the past few months. Maybe they will come back down some day, but very unlikely they'll come all the way back down. Unfortunately I'm going to have to revise my prices upwards before I start taking orders again.

And the Birdhaus 48 was an expensive little cab already: Four Faital 8PR200 woofers, each of which costs almost as much as the mighty Eminence Kappalite 3012LF, versus about one day less time to build (no complex crossover). The Birdhaus 48 is probably about as loud as the Hathor 1203, but with price and weight closer to the Hathor 1506. But the tone of the Birdhaus IS going to be the most consistent across the widest angle, and apparently its native voicing lends itself well to EQ, so maybe that combination of characteristics carves out its niche:

I definitely feel like the four 8PR200s in that box kick out a full-range-enough signal for me...

When the dark times of isolation began last year, the B48 came home from our practice space and it pulled triple duty, getting electric guitar and lap steel played through it also. I bounced back and forth to my Scorpion-equipped Peavey combos and the frequency response range between the two was close enough that small EQ tweaks got the sounds into the same ballpark.

 

[Al Kraft]

For those folks who may have had the opportunity to compare the Birdhouse design with say a Changeling (regular or tall) would you share your insights on the differences relative to hearing yourself well on stage and providing a good sound for other musicians in the band. I find the Changeling to be a game changer design and given that much of the bass sound is omnidirectional, I wonder if the Birdhaus offers that much more for its added complexity, cost and weight.

I guess what I'm really trying to get a feel for is if there is as significant a difference between the Changeling design cabs and regular bass cabs (i.e. hearing yourself well and that multi-dimensional sound field) as there would be between a Changeling cab and a Birdhuas. I do get that the Birdhaus is voiced a bit differently and probably has a much more obvious multi-dimensional characteristic to its sound especially in the mids and upper register.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I find the Changeling to be a game changer design and given that much of the bass sound is omnidirectional, I wonder if the Birdhaus offers that much more for its added complexity, cost and weight.

The Birdhaus's dispersion is more uniform; the Changeling's woofer is omni down low, but then narrows as we go up in frequency. The little cone mids overlap the top end of the Changeling's woofer which helps with the dispersion, and then of course the little cone mids in their open chambers, with one of them rear-firing, provide good dispersion for the overtones. So the radiation pattern has a bit of a "pinched waist", with the pinch centered maybe around 1 kHz ballpark, though it's still wider than most cabs even there. On the other hand, the two-way Changeling configuration gives me the flexibility to "voice" the cab the way I want.

So there is definitely a conceptual similarity between the Changeling and Birdhaus cabs - both are targeting the same basic end result of wide dispersion (and even the single-mid Hathor cabs lean in that direction). Personally I think the voicing advantage of the Changeling format generally tips the scale in its favor, but then I hear from people who really like the Birdhaus cabs....

 

[Al Kraft]

The Birdhaus's dispersion is more uniform; the Changeling's woofer is omni down low, but then narrows as we go up in frequency. The little cone mids overlap the top end of the Changeling's woofer which helps with the dispersion, and then of course the little cone mids in their open chambers, with one of them rear-firing, provide good dispersion for the overtones. So the radiation pattern has a bit of a "pinched waist", with the pinch centered maybe around 1 kHz ballpark, though it's still wider than most cabs even there. On the other hand, the two-way Changeling configuration gives me the flexibility to "voice" the cab the way I want.

So there is definitely a conceptual similarity between the Changeling and Birdhaus cabs - both are targeting the same basic end result of wide dispersion (and even the single-mid Hathor cabs lean in that direction). Personally I think the voicing advantage of the Changeling format generally tips the scale in its favor, but then I hear from people who really like the Birdhaus cabs....

That makes sense Duke. Maybe it's just that I have been so impressed by the Changeling (including size and weight) I have a hard time imagining the Birdhaus would be a tremendous improvement for my uses. I can see how it would add a bigger and more uniform 3-D kind of sound field (and very useful in many situations), but dang my C112T is so heads and shoulders over typical cabs (which I've used for years) it's hard to want more than what the C112T delivers. Although I fully acknowledge that we all have different priorities, goals, requirements, expectations, etc.

 

[31HZ]

I was trying to decide if I should bring my Bodai112 or my TC115 to the outdoor gig.

Consideration is primarily portability (we'll be the third of four bands; it's a decent schlep; I'm tired from working), heft in the low end, and clarity on stage. Full FOH provided, so this cab is just for the stage sound.

I brought the TC. I'll probably start with ports out, and I'll dial it in with a parametric (remove bloom, add a narrow band of mids for clarity).

For some reason this thread has me stoked to use this cab tonight. Can't wait to post an update.

 

[Al Kraft]

For some reason this thread has me stoked to use this cab tonight.

You know you hit on something that just dawned on me...I like using my C112T. It's sort of analogous to, any car can get you to work, but some are just more fun to drive. Duke's cabs have a lot of voicing features and special aspects that simply make them more fun to use besides sounding really great!

 

[31HZ]

It was great, btw.

 

[Al Kraft]

It was great, btw.

View attachment 4425225

I love the CAUTION sign - nice touch and good thinking!

Looking at the whole rig though, I can't imagine how that set-up could sound anything other than incredible...

 

[TomB]

I love the CAUTION sign - nice touch and good thinking!

Looking at the whole rig though, I can't imagine how that set-up could sound anything other than incredible...

Just curious… What’s the Rane adding to the party? Eden’s EQ was always a fave.

 

[Al Kraft]

Just curious… What’s the Rane adding to the party? Eden’s EQ was always a fave.

It's not my rig (and going from memory on the Rane and Eden Navigator), but I think the Rane offers fully parametric EQ while the Eden is only semi-parametric (fixed Q). This would allow for greater fine tuning when/if needed.