AudioKinesis Cabs V!!!!

[steve_rolfeca]

Okay, you guys have my attention. I would enjoy immensely developing and building a killer little "acoustic volume" cab. Other companies are already doing "ultra light" little cabs, so I'm going to shoot for "sounds really good and still easy to carry".

YES!!!

I'm a shameless fanboy for my TC112AF, but it's overkill for some of my gigs. Not just in the sense of the size and power handling, but that it's too rich and "electric" sounding in the low end,

Something a little drier/tighter/more woody sounding down low, but still with that awesomely smooth, flat midrange and treble response (and killer dispersion) would be brilliant. The places I would use it:
- acoustic-electric, "coffee house" singer-songwriter gigs
- amplifying my electric bass for unmic'ed acoustic folk and jazz
- playing for shut-ins at nursing and group homes
- bedroom practice
- house concerts

Half the power handling of my TC, would be ample. Half the size would not be unwelcome, either.

On the subject of dispersion; I've been using a little sealed automotive subwoofer cab for those types of gigs. I loaded it with an Eminence 10 I had kicking around the shop (an Alpha or Beta, I forget which). It has an angled baffle, with the driver slanted up at about a 35 degree angle from horizontal.

The aggressive kickback angle accomplishes a couple of things: I hear myself really well, and it gives a nice diffuse, 3D sound field with less "room boom". I was getting asked to turn down on occasion with the TC, but not with this little guy. Still, I miss the smooth, refined sound of my TC.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Nothing against Duke's expertise, but Steve's wish list is nailed by a single Crazy8. I've been using one for a year exactly for gigs and home use like these.

 

[PDGood]

Nothing against Duke's expertise, but Steve's wish list is nailed by a single Crazy8. I've been using one for a year exactly for gigs and home use like these.

Maybe I've just received mis-information about that cab, but it seems to be aimed for acoustic bass players rather than electric bass players playing with other acoustic instruments. The difference being a lack of deep low end.
Also, the hope for me would be that if it's smaller it wouldn't require composites to get the weight down and would have smaller/less components and therefore be less expensive. Sort of like improving on what's already out there with the usual brands - Ampeg, Fender, Peavey and just making it better via Duke's design capabilities.

P.S. In a band situation I'm looking for the ability to carry the room, blend with the band or cut through the band as desired, disperse evenly, and meet my personal tone goals. When playing with acoustic instruments at songwriter get-togethers or Christmas get-togethers with family (where vocals are often sung without P.A.), all I need is a deep, clear note in as small a box as possible. Preferably not cube shaped as deep cabinets are the worst to fit in a car.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Maybe I've just received mis-information about that cab, but it seems to be aimed for acoustic bass players rather than electric bass players playing with other acoustic instruments. The difference being a lack of deep low end.
Also, the hope for me would be that if it's smaller it wouldn't require composites to get the weight down and would have smaller/less components and therefore be less expensive. Sort of like improving on what's already out there with the usual brands - Ampeg, Fender, Peavey and just making it better via Duke's design capabilities.

Maybe Duke's waveguide idea would improve dispersion. That might be an interesting change, but the Crazy8 is already pretty good at that. And if you want deeper bass -- turn up the bass EQ and cut the highs a touch. It's also useful to add a HPF if you want big volume. Excellent with acoustic bass, very nice with electric. The wooden (1/2" Baltic birch) version weighs 16.8 pounds including kickstand. Here's a photo. (Sorry to derail the thread Duke -- you helped me a few years ago attack this problem and the Crazy8 is the only good solution I've seen since, so there is that issue not having to reinvent the wheel.....).

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Thank you gentlemen for your enthusiasm and suggestions! I don't know if I can check off all the boxes, but I'll try to hit as many of them as I can.

PDGood, in "normal cab" terms, what do you see as having "the ability to carry the room, blend with the band or cut through the band as desired"? Are we talking 2x10 class output? Keeping up with a drummer? Can you give me an example of a cab that would just meet your SPL requirements, so I can get a better idea of where those goal posts are?

Ukiah Bass, yeah I ended up punting when we were talking about a compact cab a while back. Improving on the Crazy 8/Crazy 88 is indeed a challenge. I doubt I can make an across-the-board (including weight) improvement on either, but maybe I can come up with a different set of tradeoffs optimized a bit more for the small acoustic session. There's no point in me essentially duplicating the Crazy 8/Crazy 88, so I will be looking to do something a bit different.

I've reacently done some experimenting with horns that have wider dispersion in the vertical plane than the horn I've been using in the Thunderchild series, with encouraging results. Also I've found a new compression driver that opens up some possibilities that weren't really there before, still waiting on the first boatload to arrive in California with my order on it.

I'm out of town right now and will be for the next week or so, which means I don't have access to my modelling programs... arrgh! I'm almost helpless without my props.

 

[PDGood]

Thank you gentlemen for your enthusiasm and suggestions! I don't know if I can check off all the boxes, but I'll try to hit as many of them as I can.

PDGood, in "normal cab" terms, what do you see as having "the ability to carry the room, blend with the band or cut through the band as desired"? Are we talking 2x10 class output? Keeping up with a drummer? Can you give me an example of a cab that would just meet your SPL requirements, so I can get a better idea of where those goal posts are?

Yes, that's easy. It's your TC115. Mission accomplished.

I was just using that reference to help define all the things that the "acoustic volume" cabinet does not have to do.

P.S. It's just silly how many tone compliments I've gotten since the TC115. And the other funny part is that no one ever considers the cabinet. They come up and say something like "What kind of bass is that? That thing sounds incredible." Or if they recognize that I'm playing a $200 bass, "What kind of amp is that? That thing sounds incredible." That's when I explain to them what Ken Jung has helped me realize - that's it's not any one thing, it's how all the things work together. And in this case, my system is built around what plays well with the speaker cabinet.

It is indeed a wonderful time to be a bass player, as others have mentioned.

 

[engedi1]

Too true about the difference a good cab makes. It really is amazing. My tone, especially upright tone, has hugely improved since getting the TC115. I also get great compliments on my tone through Electric bass as well. Until I got this cab I didn't understand either just how radical of an impact the cab could have. It also revealed that my last cab and current amp were not a good pairing (TH500 and TC electronic 2x12)

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Yes, that's easy. It's your TC115. Mission accomplished.

I was just using that reference to help define all the things that the "acoustic volume" cabinet does not have to do.

Ah, I had read your earlier post too fast! Thanks for straightening me out.

 

[nutdog]

I can neither confirm nor deny the status of my ports at this time.

I now have it on good authority nostatic doesn't have a port to plug in.

 

[Chef]

Any Port in a Storm.......

 

[dukeorock]

Stop clowning around you guys...this is im PORT ant

 

[Chef]

I heard Import Ant was playing Coachella.

 

[nostatic]

I was going to type a longer response but I got a call from the Port Authority. My ship has come in.

And yes, MSHCI is playing Coachella as well.

 

[Chef]

Must be nice, living in a port city.

 

[dukeorock]

Had a glass of something last night...trying to remember what it was

 

[PDGood]

And if you want deeper bass -- turn up the bass EQ and cut the highs a touch.

Errr....that's not going to change the tone profile of the cabinet.
I think our tone goals may be different.

 

[rpsands]

Errr....that's not going to change the tone profile of the cabinet.
I think our tone goals may be different.

The cabinet's tone profile is a starting point, not a straight jacket. Cabs that will take lots of bass eq due to having lots of excursion can often be made to sound much deeper than their default tone.

 

[koobie]

The TC112AF is very impressive for such a lightweight & portable bass cab. It's natural timbre, bass extension & power handling are ideal for a piezo-equipped bass, in my case a Rob Allen Mouse.

It's even response over a wide axis makes it especially useful for amplifying acoustic string instruments. The NW has a fairly active bluegrass & folk scene and I've been using the ThunderChild to help pickers choose microphones for their mandolins, fiddles and guitars. With a good mic, the TC cab can produce a surprising amount of gain before feedback, like you'd hope from a high-end p.a. cabinet.

 

[PDGood]

The cabinet's tone profile is a starting point, not a straight jacket. Cabs that will take lots of bass eq due to having lots of excursion can often be made to sound much deeper than their default tone.

I'd love to be wrong on this because the crazy 8 is a beautiful cabinet designed by thinking people. To date I've only heard minimal clips but they did not sound like the cab could go deep tonally.
I certainly can't argue technical issues with the folks on this board and you in particular, but I do trust my ears. I've eq'd small cabinets every way imaginable but what I'm hearing when I do that is not what I'd call a deeper note. Maybe it's just a matter of terminology and perhaps " deeper note" is not the best description possible.

 

[rpsands]

I'd love to be wrong on this because the crazy 8 is a beautiful cabinet designed by thinking people. To date I've only heard minimal clips but they did not sound like the cab could go deep tonally.
I certainly can't argue technical issues with the folks on this board and you in particular, but I do trust my ears. I've eq'd small cabinets every way imaginable but what I'm hearing when I do that is not what I'd call a deeper note. Maybe it's just a matter of terminology and perhaps " deeper note" is not the best description possible.

The crazy 8 might not be the best example because its Fs is a little high for this approach, but with a steep HPF around 35-45hz it should be safe to get quite loud down to 60hz or so which is sufficient for most 5-stringers.

The best example of the "eq it to sound deep" woofer I've ever heard is the 3012HO.

That woofer in its best alignment for bass (~1.5cf or less tuned to around 50hz) will be around -3db at 80hz, which is acceptable for a 4-string tuned to E but not great.

Now, if you add +3db with Q = 1 at 60hz, it'll become -3db at 55hz and have quite a lot more output under 100hz overall. It'll also still take a lot of power, because of its serious xmax and the boosted region is in a decent spot for the tuning.