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Avant-Garde Bassists?

#41
thanks for dropping my name in here.

re nels, have played with him for 35 years (!). his twin bro alex (amazing drummer), too.

(played with frisell, nels and alex in julius hemphill's band in the '80s. unfortunately, not very much documentation of that stuff.)

here's some live stuff from 2010. nels, g.e. stinson, scott amendola et moi. (we also had a disc out on a very small label in the early 2000s, or late 90s.)

L. Stinkbug 2010-05-15 Sacramento - YouTube
 
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#42
I consider Billy Sheehan to be quite avant-garde. I personally... strongly dislike his style, I think his over the top playing is unmusical and (for me) is one of the only reasons I don't like Mr Big, from what I've heard of them. Despite that I still think he has crazy technical skills and is probably one of the fastest players out there, FWIW.
 
#43
Emilym80 said:
I consider Billy Sheehan to be quite avant-garde. I personally... strongly dislike his style, I think his over the top playing is unmusical and (for me) is one of the only reasons I don't like Mr Big, from what I've heard of them. Despite that I still think he has crazy technical skills and is probably one of the fastest players out there, FWIW.
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to my mind there is nothing "avant garde" about billy sheehan. as you say, he's very adept, but doesn't do much beyond a compenidum of licks, generally in the usual keys, etc., and mostly unrelated to each other. ymmv.

the folks i know that are "avant garde" have strong knowledge of jazz, blues, rock, classical, etc., and extended harmonic concepts--they are not showboaters in the tech sense. they're just as likely to play a droney c major chord as they are to play out-and-out white noise or fast free jazz in any given piece.

that's not to say that all people who are "avant garde" roll this way. just like there are people who shred with great results and people who shred that are basically exercising ego-driven wankery in the metal scene (or any other music scene, for thst matter), there are people in the "avant garde" scene are the real deal . . . and those that aren't when you listen.

you can tell pretty quickly who those folks sre.

billy sheehan? naw. prodigious technically, but not avant garde.
 
#44
steubig said:
the folks i know that are "avant garde" have strong knowledge of jazz, blues, rock, classical, etc., and extended harmonic concepts--they are not showboaters in the tech sense. they're just as likely to play a droney c major chord as they are to play out-and-out white noise or fast free jazz in any given piece.
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^^^This. The musicians that impress and engage me most are the ones who have "idea chops" rather than technical chops; they're the ones capable of grasping a deep or challenging or non-simplistic concept, translating it to their instrument, and executing it with consumate grace without ever losing sight of the fact that they're serving the music. They're the anti-wankers.

...or, if perhaps occasionaly they are wanking, it's their brains that are doing the wanking, not their fingers.
 
#45
Roscoe East said:
^^^This. The musicians that impress and engage me most are the ones who have "idea chops" rather than technical chops; they're the ones capable of grasping a deep or challenging or non-simplistic concept, translating it to their instrument, and executing it with consumate grace without ever losing sight of the fact that they're serving the music. They're the anti-wankers.

...or, if perhaps occasionaly they are wanking, it's their brains that are doing the wanking, not their fingers.
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succinctly put. wish i had said that ;-)
 
#46
Roscoe East said:
^^^This. The musicians that impress and engage me most are the ones who have "idea chops" rather than technical chops; they're the ones capable of grasping a deep or challenging or non-simplistic concept, translating it to their instrument, and executing it with consumate grace without ever losing sight of the fact that they're serving the music. They're the anti-wankers.

...or, if perhaps occasionaly they are wanking, it's their brains that are doing the wanking, not their fingers.
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I know precisely what you mean and I too share your appreciation of compositional chops, but I can't help thinking of how much of an oxymoron brain wanking seems to me.

Avant-garde, while in its nature is hard to pin down, is definitely more of a high-concept art-form.
 
#47
Good to see an old thread get revived so I can read it. Some great stuff so far.

I would cautiously add Robert Black to the list, although Bang on a Can really plays composed music in an abstract/mid 20th-century classical style. It's modern classical mixed with everything. So, it doesn't technically meet the definition of avant garde, but it surely isn't conventional:

Invalid Link Removed

Hit the "Audio" link at the top of the page to access different audio blocks of, well, various cool stuff.
 
#50
steubig said:
mark dresser.
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Indeed. The man's from outer space...though apparently from a planet where everyone not only has mind-bogglingly imaginitive idea chops, but also equally scarey physical chops ("technique") that allow him to pull off the impossible.




edit: Hey Steubig, I was looking through your website and saw mention of a 12-string (6-string doubled octave courses) Fodera bass!?!?! Pics please!
 
#51
Roscoe East said:
Indeed. The man's from outer space...though apparently from a planet where everyone not only has mind-bogglingly imaginitive idea chops, but also equally scarey physical chops ("technique") that allow him to pull off the impossible.


edit: Hey Steubig, I was looking through your website and saw mention of a 12-string (6-string doubled octave courses) Fodera bass!?!?! Pics please!
Click to expand...

pic of 12-string at bottom of the page: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

mark is both a friend and an inspiration. i've gleaned a lot just watching the guy play. he makes a *commitment* to every note.

btw, he and nels (along with vinny golia and tom varner) are on my disc pomegranate: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
(the label site doesn't have a link per se, more a bunch of unfolded, unaddressed pop-ups)

also, thanks to all for names of people i need to check out. i'm not always abreast of the bass-playing world. good to see e-bass folks mentioned in this capacity.
 
#52
FretlessMainly said:
Good to see an old thread get revived so I can read it. Some great stuff so far.

I would cautiously add Robert Black to the list, although Bang on a Can really plays composed music in an abstract/mid 20th-century classical style. It's modern classical mixed with everything. So, it doesn't technically meet the definition of avant garde, but it surely isn't conventional:

Invalid Link Removed

Hit the "Audio" link at the top of the page to access different audio blocks of, well, various cool stuff.
Click to expand...

Wow, I haven't heard anything about Robert Black in a long time, but I was fortunate enough to meet him by chance at a workshop maybe 25 years ago. It was the first time I'd ever seen anyone doing solo bass performances (on upright and Steinberger fretless), and doing that sort of serious composition on bass. I'd practically forgotten about it--thanks for the link!
 
#54
No fair. Gary Karr could make a sandwich, change the oil in his car, rake all of the leaves in his yard, change the strings on his 1611 Amati, write a dissertation on why that one note you played in 1972 didn't have enough feeling and build a dirigible in less time than it took me to compose this post.

And Mike Zim - my pleasure. It must have been cool to meet this guy. Chops all drippin' all 'round his aura, and all dat.
 

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